Ep. 109 | Transforming Nations Through Disciple Making

What does it take to raise leaders who can transform nations? In this inspiring episode of the History Makers Leadership Podcast, Dr. Norval Hadley sits down with Dr. Florence Fuqua from Cameroon, ILI’s International Director for French speaking Africa, to explore her powerful journey of faith, calling, and leadership.

Florence shares how her family encountered Christ through her father’s near death experience, how discipleship shaped her spiritual foundation, and how God gave her a vision to preach the gospel to the nations. She also discusses the need for leadership training resources in French speaking Africa, the importance of equipping marketplace leaders, and the vital role women play in transforming families, communities, and nations.

Listeners will hear a compelling call to embrace identity, purpose, and influence for the Kingdom of God. Tune in to gain insights on disciple making, women in leadership, and raising a generation of history makers.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Hello, and welcome again to the History Makers Leadership Podcast. It is sent to you by the International Leadership Institute. We accelerate the spread of the gospel one empowered leader at a time. Today we're having a conversation with Florence Fukua. Pastor Florence Fukua, Dr. Florence Fukua, is from the country of Cameroon, and she uh leads ILI, helps to lead ILI as the international director for the French-speaking countries in Africa. Florence, it's a joy to have you with us.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Thank you so much, Dr. Norival. It's a joy to be here in the headquarters of ILI.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Yes, and uh Florence is here with her entire family. Her son, Ariel, her uh firstborn son, just graduated from college.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Exactly, from Oakland City University. Yes, he got a bachelor's degree. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Yes, and he is a uh a sportsman, he plays volleyball, and he is going to be uh

A Family Comes To Faith

SPEAKER_02 1:20

coaching and helping uh with the team as well um at the at his university. So, Florence, um let's get right into our conversation. We want to get to know you. Tell us a little bit about yourself, um, where how you grew up. Did you grow up as a Christian?

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Thank you so much. I am uh Florence Abula Fuqua. I was born uh in Cameroon. Uh my father was a medical doctor. Yeah, and uh we were eight children with five now. Uh three went to be with the Lord, and uh we grew up as Catholic. Okay, we were we were Christian Catholic, and uh we were going to church like three times a year. We were not so fervent, yes, and um yeah, I had to met with the Lord, I gave my life to Jesus in 1989. Um my father had actually an experience where he had an accident, and um he died in that accident, and as he was going to the other side, he met with the Lord, and the Lord told him, It's not yet time for you to come. And before that, we had some neighbors, some women, and uh they were preaching the gospel to my father, but he was an intellectual doctor, and he was like, I don't understand this. So when he came back from that experience, he looked for those women and he told them, uh, I want to know your Jesus. And he brought old family there. Uh, we all gave our life to Jesus and we started a journey. And then, but I was still, it was not yet my own revival, my personal revival. Uh and uh we had uh evangelist Renard Bonke, who came to Cameroon, and we were we were living uh by the side of the stadium where he had his great crusade, and I went there and for the first time I knew who was Jesus. Uh I heard Jesus in a new manner. I gave my life to Jesus. I was sobering, seeing people being healed, miracles. And uh after that, those women started to disciple us. So that was my first, I would say my first revival.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Wow, that that is very it's very interesting how God used a miracle, a near-death experience with your father to bring him to the Lord and and with him the whole family. It it I always admire how a when when a a head of household, when a man who is a leader in their house, like your father, uh, finds Jesus, it usually brings the entire family.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

And it seems like uh your family serves the Lord. I know you have a twin sister.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Yeah, I actually everybody in my family serves the Lord. Uh, my senior brother is a pastor, my twin sister is a pastor, my junior sister, she's a psalmist, my uh junior brother serves um in the ministry, music ministry. Uh-huh. Yeah, so all of us we are into ministry.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Everybody, everybody is in one way or another.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

And my father, my mother was made an elder in the church, and my father also

Disciple Making And A Call

SPEAKER_00 5:00

was made an elder.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Okay, so now you meet Jesus, you you discover faith together with your whole family. So, in terms of how you put that faith into practice in terms of ministry, where did you go? What was the calling that God put later on your life?

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Yeah, uh, we had uh, I like to talk about disciple making because it really had an impact in my life. Um by that time, Bishop Chris, who is my my father in the Lord, my adoptive father, uh, he was leading the cell group in our house. Okay. And him and his wife started discipling me. And um, my father has to go on retirement, and he left Yaoundé and I had to stay with Bishop Chris. By that time he was Pastor Chris and the wife. And uh when we gave our life to Jesus, uh, we had a program, a seven-day program in the church. And my twin sister did that seven-day fasting program, and I didn't do it. But I saw the transformation in my twin sister. She was, I mean, she had like an epiphany uh transfiguration. She was transformed, she had a revival, and I started thinking there must be something deeper than what I'm living. And I went to university in the northern side of Cameroon, and that's where I started building my faith with the Lord, with the the Christians that were there in university, is a Muslim place. And uh the challenge of being in that kind of environment made me uh look for the Lord seriously. I was leading the prayer cell group there. Uh I was leading the student prayer time, and uh even in that place, we were like living some form of persecution. They would tell us, don't pray in your room, don't, I mean, and I was like challenged to express my faith there. And something happened in the process because my grandmother died, and we had to go to the village, and she was old, very old, and it was like a celebration. And for me, I didn't know that the Lord was waiting for me there. And I was like in a retreat time, and I had an experience where uh I like I had like a trance, and I saw the the globe of the globe, the map mount, and then I saw uh an image came, and I saw two little uh children of Africa and I heard Africa, and another image came, a man and a woman, and I heard Europe, another image came and I heard Asia, and another image came and I heard America, and the light came on top of that flag of the of the flag of the world, and it was written, I am your eternal God. And the Lord told me, I'm going to send you to nations to preach the gospel.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

And that's where I went back in university with that's my second revival. I knew that I have an apostolic call to the nations, and I went to my uh my bishop or of father in in spiritual spiritual father, and I told him that God is calling me to be uh an apostle to nation. And he asked me, Do you know what it means? I said, Yes, I will be a missionary, uh, I'm a saint one to nations, and from there I started having this growing hunger and burden, first of all, to train young ladies. Because when I got married, I started asking this essential question of life why am I here for uh what's my purpose in life? And uh the Lord told me I care. And he showed me the need of the young girls in my church, and he said, start nurturing them, discipling them. And I started with those girls, and after that, I had a passion for the emerging leaders, and we started what we call uh academy of the young leaders. For one year, I have uh an hunger uh really to train myself to be equipped. I was reading anything that has to do with leadership, and on the internet I met an organization and they start equip organization, and they were sending me uh lessons and teachings on leadership. Uh Nehemiah as the great leader, I was following all the steps of the training, and that's how uh that hunger and the burden grow and grow and grow. And then I prayed. In the process, I said, Lord, please can you just send some people to come and equip emerging leaders? And all the resources, what is very good is that uh Cameroon is a bilingual country uh with Canada, where we speak English and French. Yeah. And in in class, I was very, very good in English. And I all the resources I was looking for were in English, and nothing in French. Nothing. We didn't have anything in French, and I had a burden to train leaders in the French-speaking countries from there.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Wow. That is that is so interesting. Florence, what what it what's interesting in what you just this this story that you told us, this narrative, is that what it seems like is what when you were in university and and starting your married life, you must have been 23 by then.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

23, 24.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

Yeah. And uh what what I see there is that the same disciple-making process that those two women and that Bishop Chris went through with you, which made you a strong follower of Jesus. That disciple it's so interesting that I've been reading a lot on this as well. And it seems there's a trend for of moving from the word discipleship, which looks like a course of study, yeah, to disciple making, which is to shape that new disciple. And I see that process going on in you. Now you're doing it with young women, young women, emerging leaders, and um, and and and you're looking for resources in the French language because I've been to Cameroon, and there are a lot of people whose English is not rich like yours, who struggle with English, but they're totally fluent in French.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Yeah, that's that's how I came as an answer. Because um I did I did Haggai in Cameroon, Hagai training. And by then I asked them, don't you have any training for emerging leaders? And they told me is in Cameroon, they said it's not it's not our our target. Right, yeah. We don't we don't train emerging leaders.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

But by the way, for those who are not familiar with Hagai Institute, is also an organization that had a deep influence in me. Just like you. Um, it's based in the United States, but it's not well known in the U.S. because all of their ministry is in the emerging church, exactly, in the um, in the developing world, and in the the rest of the world, if you will, not not in the West. And they are a tremendous organization that that has a lot of hidden influence, if you will. A lot of leaders out there that were shaped by uh by their vision and their their process, including including both of us.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Including both of us.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

But it's true, they're they they're a top-down approach, they invest in the top leaders like you or like me.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

But they don't have a process for emerging leaders. And then

Translating Resources And Finding Purpose

SPEAKER_02 13:31

I think somebody asked you to translate.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Yes, yes. I I was I was finishing in the university. I my passion was to be a diplomat. Yeah, because I I I did I did uh uh international law and political science in university, and that's what I wanted to do. And the Lord told me, you're going to do that for me. Yeah. He said, You'll be a diplomat for me, and you would do international communication for me. There to go. And that's what? Communicate. Communicate.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

You're a dip, you're uh you're uh an ambassador of the kingdom of God.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Exactly, exactly. So in um in in 2001, when I was like having this burden of equipping leaders, uh the organ I met an organization focusing on uh training emerging leaders uh called Jesus Focus Ministry, uh Youth Focus Youth Solution. And they sent, I wrote to them, can you come and train young imaging leaders in Cameroon? And they said, Yes, we have somebody in Ghana. And uh the person they first sent uh Jim Moy, he said he's going to come, but he came to America and he got sick.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

Yes, and he was one of the founders of the International Leadership Institute with Dr. Wes Griffin. Wow, did you know that? No. Oh Jim Moy? Jim Moy was one of the founders. Oh my goodness, really? Yes, so we go back a long way.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Oh, and he couldn't come because he died and ended up passing away. Yeah, and and Barry Sinclair told me I have somebody else, and he sent uh Michael Mosley. Yeah. Uh and and when Reverend Michael Mosley came to Cameroon with that passion, I mean, he we had we had an event, you know, emerging leaders, we were dreaming. And and we call we call that event uh uh Journey desired des jeunes pour la prayer in France is like uh world day of the youth for prayer. And we were doing it in a symbolic place in Cameroon called the reunification monument, drawing youth from uh many denominations. I mean, it was like a national event. Wow, and and he came there and we just knew that we have there's something that we have to do with him. And we told him, please, can you can you just mentor us? Leah and us, we were just new ministers of the God, but we were not even recognized. We were young, a young couple, passionate about God. And and we we we we spent like two years investing in the emerging generation without no means, with our own small need means and inviting those leaders. And when Reverend Michael Mosley came, we said, please mentor us. And he said, and he said, I'm I'm going to pray about it. And it took him like four years to say yes when when I was uh ordained into ministry. But in 2005, he he told me, I'm coming to Cameroon, please. I will come in May. Can you translate this city? I didn't have any computer. I said, Yes, I will do that. I didn't have a computer by then, but we live by a cyber coffee in Cameroon. A cyber coffee is a public place. Oh, yeah, cyber. Where you pay and have access.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

That's where everybody goes.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

There are still some of those, yes. So what I would do, Ariel was I was Ariel was a baby. What I would do is that I would leave in the morning at 7 a.m. and I would go to the cyber coffee. And as I started translating intimacy with God, reading it, God was speaking to me.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

I knew so that that CD was it spoke to my soul.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Yeah. It spoke to my soul. I knew that this is the purpose of my life. And I started seeing the the population of French-speaking Africa. I was like, how can we have this accessible for the French-speaking world? And uh I did the translation. We did four modules. He came, we did intimacy with God, family priority, uh, stewardship and integrity, and it was a wonderful. We did it in Yaounde and we went to Douala and we did it. It was like, God, this is the goal of my life. This is the purpose of my life. This is like meeting, I mean, my dream. And and from there, I think it was in that in that conference that West wrote to Dr. Abedu because he came with Dr. Abedu. Dr. West wrote, and then uh he told Dr. Abedu, can you assess Florence if she can organize uh a national or she can attend a national conference or the peak performance training in Ghana? And uh Daddy Michael said, Yes, she can do that.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

Because they say the rest is the story.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

The rest is the story. That's how we we get in touch

French Africa Leadership Gaps And Marketplace Mission

SPEAKER_00 18:55

with now.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

I think I want to transition in our conversation because you have you have uh um pointed out a few challenges. I I think it was you um that that brought to my attention the fact that the um the the the the the amount of resources that are available in the English language for leadership and for Christian leadership. That's not like that in in the French language.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

So, what are the greatest challenges of making disciples and building leaders, especially emerging leaders in in the French world, beginning with Cameroon, of course, which is where you have the greatest experience, but you have been to pretty much every French speaking country in Africa, which there are 22. Is that true? There are, I think, 20 or 22. There's there's a number of countries in Africa that 30 countries. Oh, so that's more than I thought. 30 countries in Africa that the official language is French, amongst others. So what are the what in your opinion are the greatest challenges to leading for Jesus, for the kingdom of God, of course, in a place like that?

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Yeah, definitely equipping leaders will be the first challenge because uh if we equip leaders, then we can reach out to the rest of the population. Uh the resources, of course, are not uh uh available, so we need to have more resources into French, translate, like we did with ILI, we translated the resources. Most of the resources are not available in into French. So there must be an intentional um strategy also to reach out to strategic leaders because because uh not only in the church but also in the secular world.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

Yes, I see. You have a passion for marketplace leaders, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Exactly exactly, exactly, because they are the ones who have the influence, they are shaping the decisions of the nations. They, I mean, uh they are in places of decisions, and and we need to be there. The church needs to be there because it shapes the culture, it shapes the politic of the nation, uh, it shapes the belief system, it it shapes the the development, everything. And Jesus said that we are the light of the world, we are the the the salt of the earth, so we have to be that.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

I mean, we we must there must be a a kind of uh paradigm shift in the way we perceive the gospel. Jesus was engaged into the policy of the nation. I mean, that's that's what politic is is it's the management of the city, of the nation. Right. And and many believers they are living like a a dual dualist, I don't know if you say it in English, uh huh. Life where They think that they have a spiritual life and then they have a secular life, a professional life. They have to know that we are ambassadors. We are disciple makers in our spheres of influence. Because a medical doctor, his church is his profession.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Exactly. Like Ariel doing sports. I mean, sport is a high and heavy force in the world today. And we need to have people of the kingdom there making decisions and uh influencing that sphere. Yeah. So I believe that we must be very strategic and um and and have them know that they can build school, they can build university, they can build uh uh medical hospital, they can they can they can build enterprises. I mean to to transform the nation.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

And do that for Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

And do that for the kingdom, for Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Yes. Yeah. That is a beautiful. Um, I love that idea. We need to to shift from that paradigm, exactly, that segregated, that separated idea of the church. What we what I'm I'm a believer, I'm a follower of Jesus. That's what I do in the church. Out here, not so much. Yeah, I mean, I'm faithful, but it's not, and it's it, it's not just about being faithful to Jesus in the marketplace, isn't it? No, it's about it's about the marketplace as a place of ministry, as your mission field.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Occupying. Occupying. Like Jesus said, it's about occupying. I went to a church where I was introducing uh our eight core values, and in that church, after after the program, one leader, I I think he was uh I think he was uh professor in the university, and he told me, so we can have this kind of program for the church, in the church, because he knew that we come to church to pray for our life, for our families, and that's it. And I mean, our future, but he was not seeing a kind of bridge between our faith and the marketplace. And this is a paradigm shift that we must have and and continue just as ILI is doing, continue to equip leaders, senior leaders in the church, but being more intentional about it. And I believe that that's one of the challenges that we have in the French-speaking world.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Now, of course, that that is not unique to the French-speaking world, but I with the with the with this scarcity of resources, it becomes yet one challenge. But

Women Leaders And Royal Identity

SPEAKER_02 25:05

Florence, I you know, we have to address something here that is very important. Because if being a believer, if if exercising my faith, making disciples, developing leaders is difficult, would be difficult for me in an English or French-speaking Africa context. How much harder is it for you because you're a woman?

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Oh. Exactly. Yes, I am a pioneer in what I'm doing, even when I was younger than this, uh, in investing in emerging leaders. I was a pioneer in that. And um after after working for about 16 years with uh in my capacity of serving as the international director of French speaking Africa, I had a time with the Lord, like a one year and a half sabbatical time, where he told me, I need you here with me. And during that time, I I was facing some personal challenge, like like you are asking again who am I? Like my identity. Uh and the Lord told me you are going through that because many women in the world are facing that. And he told me, look around you, how many florencies do you have like you? And I saw that even in ILI or other organizations, and one of the females. I mean, we are very few, very, very, very few engage at that level of leadership. And the Lord told me, I want you to multiply women like you. And I said, No, Lord, I don't uh I can't do women ministry now. And he said, No, I don't want you to do any kind of women ministry, I want you to multiply women ministry, women leaders like you. And the first thing was to uh he he showed me uh uh her his royal identity, uh like the identity of every believer. I mean, Jesus came not to speak about Christianity, yes, Jesus came to speak about the kingdom of God, he said the kingdom of God is here, the kingdom of God is among you, the kingdom of God is in you, he is there for the kingdom, and he told me that. And in that kingdom I am the king, and you are the sons and daughters of the king. Yes, and he brought me I Psalm 45. I've I read it several times, but I've never seen that. It is displaying the capacity of the daughters of the king, and Jesus, the Lord, gave us 12 pillars, is a training, a leadership training that we brought out just to focus on the the royal identity of the women of the kingdom. Start by understanding who they are, they are the daughters of the king. Because we relate to, and in Africa, we have it, we relate to our traditional perception of our identity. Like uh, I'm the daughter of. And that's not that's that's not always perfect. Uh, I am the wife of. If you you don't have your husband anymore, what who are you? Uh I am a professor, professional of this. If you don't have that, who are you? Uh and even in the church, there are some denominations where unfortunately they still believe that a woman cannot teach, she cannot preach, she she she has no influence, she plays no leadership role. And unfortunately, it is there, it is still there in our ecosystem. And and the Lord was telling me, meanwhile, women are they are an incubator of life, they are the ones educating their children, and the education they have, they transfer it. So if they have a low understanding or a bad understanding of who they are, that's what they're going to transfer. And the Lord told me that once they have that identity, they know that they are the daughters of the king and knowing the responsibility attached to it because there is a responsibility, it's not about the title, it's about the influence, the leadership role. So we develop a resource, support, it's not a it's not about a privilege. No, it's not a privilege, it's a it's the responsibility. And we are training women to understand their responsibility as a leader in their in their families and raising leaders in the families, but based on that identity, because once the identity is not stable, and that's the first trauma that women have, starting from the the the Garden of Eden. Yeah. So that's the first problem. And the Lord said, I've given you a perfect identity. I am the daughter of the king. I mean, there is nothing better than that.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

And based on that, I know my responsibility in the kingdom. And I embrace my vision, and I know my mission, my purpose. So our vision is to restore the royal identity of women and then to equip them to be visionary leaders and disciple makers in their sphere of influence. And that's why we are targeting women that are leaders. And this happened during COVID time. Right, yes. And it during COVID time, the Lord told me to start mentoring women leaders. So we did the history makers training, and the next step was what do we do now? The Lord told me to coach and mentor those ladies. So that's how we started, and ladies came from all over the world, and we have amazing stories of transformation, of ministry vision that started in Europe, in Africa. I mean, there is a there is a movement going on right now.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

Of women in who are leaders, yeah, who have I discovered their identity in Christ.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Of women who have discovered their identity in Christ, who have discovered their vision and who know their mission.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

Wow. Well, Florence, it has been so exciting to talk leadership to you and hear your story. Um, some things about your story that even after having walked with you for all these years, I wasn't aware, or at least I didn't know the details. And it's exciting to see

Final Charge And How To Support

SPEAKER_02 32:10

where God has brought you. Uh now, there are women out there that are listening, and there are men that are either listening in their favorite uh uh uh platform or watching us on video. Give give give us a final message to to those men and women, women and also men who are watching us.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Yeah. Um thank you so much, Norival. I just want to say, first of all, that I'm so privileged because you have mentored me in this in this journey with Christina. Uh and uh it's it's been a journey of faith with the Lord, and we are seeing the fruit in our children. Our children are history makers. So and it's not only the mission that we're doing, but it's a call. That's the purpose of our life. I mean, I've been in this journey for 21 years, and it's been uh experience after experience. Uh for the men and women out there, uh the Lord is really telling us that men and women are they are partners in in the ministry, they are partners in the leadership mission and vision of the Lord, and you can equip one without equipping the other. Once men and women are equipped, families are transformed, uh, communities are transformed, nations are transformed. Uh the burden that the Lord is giving us, and I believe is really for us, for me personally, it is the next step for the emerging generation and also for women because both are linked. They are linked because women are investing in their children. And uh uh we have that burden. My dream is to see an army of women being equipped and go back in education, in the medical field, uh, in communication, in justice, and all the spheres of influence to be ambassadors of God. So we we we really pray that God will raise people who will understand the importance of doing that and support that initiative to raise more leaders uh in those nations of the world and really equip women to be relevant.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

Yes, absolutely. Yes, there is a gap. Um, the reason why the entire world doesn't know Christ, the reason why um we see so many challenges in the world today is there is a gap in leadership. There is. And your message and your ministry and your calling is so important and so profound in developing those people. Maybe some of those folks are watching us today, are um are watching us, I don't know, six months, a year from now. Yeah. Um, and by hearing your story, they can they can dream about being Florence's exactly or being Norvals or leading for the sake of the kingdom of God. Thank you for being a part of uh of History Makers. Thank you for uh participating with us. If this content has benefited you, if you feel like it has blessed you, help us to put the word out. Give us um give us a like, make sure to to like, make sure to subscribe because that's what guides the algorithm to take this content to other people like you who might benefit or who might be blessed by participating in it. Thanks for being with us. Until next time, this is History Makers Leadership Podcast. Bye bye.