Ep. 103 | Leading Beyond The Clip

In an era where a 60-second viral clip can define a person’s entire theology, Christian leaders face a daunting challenge: how do we compete with the noise of social media while maintaining the depth of the Gospel? Many leaders feel the pressure to produce "clickbait" content just to stay visible, often wondering if they are sacrificing integrity for reach.

This episode explores a visionary approach to digital leadership, viewing today’s social platforms not as a distraction, but as the modern-day Areopagus. We discuss how the history-changing truth of the Gospel is not truly transferred through short clips, but through Christ-like character lived out in authentic relationships. By moving from mere content production to intentional conversation, leaders can bridge the gap between digital interaction and deep discipleship. Discover how to leverage current technologies to provide "ancient truths" to a world longing for something more substantial than an AI summary.

Key Takeaways:
- Meet People Where They Gather: Acknowledge digital spaces as natural meeting points and engage them with cultural sensitivity and power.
- Speak Into the Viral: Use "reaction videos" and timely responses to speak truth into the trends your community is already seeing.
- Content to Conversation: Focus on active engagement in comments and clear calls to action to move listeners from observation to relationship.
- The Power of the Ancient: Point digital seekers back to historical confessions and scripture to provide a solid foundation in a "new age" world.

Transcript

Entering Digital Spaces With Integrity

SPEAKER_00 0:06

When a 60-second clip defines someone's theology for the course of a week or even a month or their life, it can be so difficult as Christian leaders today to navigate how to meet them in that moment. Listen, you know and I know that the history-changing truth of the gospel isn't communicated or conveyed in clips. It's actually transferred through Christ-like character lived out in our lives that changes communities, lives, and nations. That kind of gospel-transforming power comes through something more. So today we want to talk through and look at what is it, what does it mean to lead in a context where so many people are learning about their faith through these short-term clips and these interactions or maybe even the AI summaries on their Google searches rather than walking in relationship with people. So today we will look at a couple of strategies that will help us to navigate this interesting new moment that we're living and leading through today. So I'm really excited to be joined again by Shannon Jackson. Shannon is such a dear friend. Shannon, I know you have just some questions and thoughts that you'd like to kind of bat around with me to see how to navigate the complexities of the current leadership context.

From Viral Clips To Real Discipleship

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Daniel. I'm excited to have this conversation with you. One of the questions I have is for someone who is a pastor, they want to be in the same space as people that are looking for Jesus. They have a message, they are concerned about discipleship, they know that their congregation is in these spaces. And so they want to also be in these spaces. So how do they, with integrity, enter into these spaces, but also offer something more authentic than just a click and a 20-minute or 20-second clip about Jesus?

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Yeah, I I think that's such a great question. Um, I believe the best leaders, the most effective Christian leaders are culturally relevant, right? So they're gonna live and teach the gospel with cultural sensitivity and power uh in a way that that really engages people. Um and I think it's important first and foremost to acknowledge uh this is where people are meeting. Yeah, right. Paul went to the Areopagus, uh, and the Areopagus of our day is is this space, right? It's the Instagram space, the the TikTok space, the the YouTube short space, the Reels space. It's in those places. That's the natural meeting point where people are gathering to think and discuss ideas together. Um so for the Christian leader today, it's first acknowledging that's where they're gathering. So we should meet them in that place, becoming all things to all people that some may know him. Right. Um, so instead of kind of raging against that as we might, uh, we first want to acknowledge, hey, that's where they're going. Uh, it's okay for us to be in that space. Yeah. Uh, you know, I I think, praise God, there are several, there are many believers who have seen the need for sound teaching and theology in those digital spaces, and praise God, they are engaging in them. I think of a couple of great groups like uh Kingdom Code UK, uh, an incredible movement of men and women that are using digital tools to advance the kingdom, or Faith Tech Global, another incredible ministry helping believers to think through uh with some consistency and some integrity how to apply the scriptures through the use of these digital tools and technologies. So some great groups to look at there. Um but if your question is, hey, how do I help carry that from uh just an observation into something of greater significance? Uh I think for the leader today, it's catching those those clips and and speaking into them. Find the ones that are going viral in your feed and in the feeds of others and begin to speak to some of those, either intentionally throughout the week or uh uh um even on a Sunday, if you're if you're a teacher or a preacher, or maybe you're a Christian business owner and you want to uh uh speak to some of those things that you see in the, you know, uh during your staff Bible study or prayer group or or you know, whatever your context is for kind of uh discipling people. But I think as a Christian leader, we want to see those and then take the opportunity to speak into them. It's likely that your people are already seeing those. So when you engage in that video that teaches about uh the Trinity for the first time, uh or talks about a section of scripture that maybe is a little hard to wrestle through, begin to respond to those. I also think it's a great opportunity for uh sound Christian thinkers uh to respond with reaction videos. If you see somebody who's saying something, you go, hey, they're not wrong, but this would carry it a step further. Uh reacting to those things and kind of giving some of your feedback or content uh would be a way to help uh uh uh teach and disciple. But I think above all of these things, we have to be careful to engage with people, not just producing more content for their feeds, as important and valuable as that can be. Yeah, but I think the more we can move from content to a conversation, we begin to move closer and closer to the relational elements of discipleship that are biblical. Um, you know, I I think the history of the church is one that has always used technology to advance the gospel, to advance the kingdom, right? Uh Paul used pen and paper. That was a technology. We don't even think about it as technology today, but it was the printing press, the advent of radio, each of these really leverage technology to advance the gospel. Sure. Uh, bringing hope to people who are hopeless, bringing the good news of Christ to people who didn't have it. This is just a new moment in history for that same activity and action. We want to make sure that we're continually pulling people from just hearing a thing and it not really changing their lives to moving them closer and closer into relationship. Um and I think the best way to do that is is comments uh and and calls to actions, right? We want to engage in people, engage with those who are authentically engaging in the comments, but then also give them call to action, give them a practical next step where they know they can land uh um for the for the next element in the relationship. If they're not ready for that, they're just gonna kind of swipe on past and and they're gonna keep going. But there's gonna be some who go, hey, I actually I I do want to hear more about this. I do want to understand this more. And that's when you can link them back to maybe a um, you know, depending on your your spiritual background or or or you know, kind of Christian denominational affiliation, you bring them back to a catechism and you walk them through a catechism, you bring them back to an old confession, right? Uh the London Confession of uh 18, whatever, or the you know Westminster Confession, or you bring them back to some of these kind of old, ancient documents. And I think in that process, you're really going to find they they begin to latch on to wait a minute, this is old, this is true. Uh in a world that's full of new age, new idea. Um, there's something rich and I think longing in the ancient truths that scripture provides and some of the the you know uh thoughts of our brothers and sisters of bygone eras, yeah, they still have value to add to our lives because they did. They did that hard work of thinking through and planning. And so I would say, hey, Christian leader today, you're trying to navigate that. Man, put out some reaction videos, speak to those things to the people that are gathering with you that you are in relationship with, uh, and then uh begin taking the digital space that you are engaged in and point people to increasing levels of community and connection with you, uh, and begin giving people that kind of clear funnel where they can take next steps in relationship with you.

Authenticity Means Sharing Failures

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Yeah. I love what you said about bringing people together, giving them a place to have a conversation, really following up with them, being active in the comments. Um, we can look at that as just, you know, something that could seem seem be insignificant, but anybody engaged online right now sees it. Those comment sections, you know, sometimes somebody will share a post and just say, read the comments, because a comment section is where all the action's at. So I love that you're saying, you know, that's actually an effective way to add some authenticity to a post. That's great. For for someone who is possibly new, engaging, they're making some posts, that maybe they're not seeing a lot of traction, but they are interested in helping people take those next steps and creating that conversation space. Um, what advice would you give them on how to be authentic? Because we do know that regardless of how many people are engaging in social media, um, and we all we we we talk often about how social media is people's perfect, what they want you to see. But yet we're all craving authenticity. And so how can they, in this world where people are pushing this perfect um perception, how can they balance that and be more authentic in that space?

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Share your failures. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

That's good.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Uh, if you want people to know that you're being honest and fully there, share the hard moments.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Um uh it's not that we magnify or celebrate those things. Yeah. Um, and there's there's no twistedness to that, right? Sometimes people share like the photo of the hospital bed because that's gonna get the most clicks, the most likes, the most whatever. Sure. Uh, because it does, right? It kind of is sensationalized. Um but I think particularly for Christian leaders today, there could be a real pressure to always be on, to always be performant, to uh not have setbacks, failures, faults, shortcomings, yeah. Um, and and to to only celebrate the wins. Um, I do think that the culture is is shifting from that a bit. But I I think the best thing to do is um is to have those live moments uh where you just say, hey, this is this is where I am today. Uh and there's probably a couple of good practices for that. Uh one would just be, hey, I have a weekly check-in that no matter really what's going on, I just check in in that digital space. And I just say, Hey, this is where I am, this is what's really going on. Um and you kind of touch base with that. Almost like a um, maybe, maybe like old school internet where it was like a blog, uh, right? Or a vlog that you just kind of have out there. It's like a digital diary. Uh, I think returning to some things like that might be a uh just a an old uh a new old way to go about that process. Um because in the midst of those failures, people see that, right? Authenticity really is usually a uh a phrase that means how do I know that I can trust what you're saying?

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Right? How do I really know that that you're giving it all to me? Um and I think I think sharing those those struggles uh are an easy way because it's for what reason would you share that? Right. Um now you could share that manipulatively, uh, but but you know, I Christian audience here, I'd like to think we all we all know that we ought not be doing that. Um so that's what I would do. I would just go about that process of of uh sharing those kinds of moments.

Online Church Versus Embodied Community

SPEAKER_01 10:27

Yeah, I appreciate that because you're right. So often people either they're afraid to share their authentic self because you never know, you're putting yourself out there on social media, you're you know, welcoming what whoever can say whatever they want to say about whatever situation, and maybe even not even see that you're being authentic. They may even judge your authenticity as being fake in such a hyper-focused judgmental world that we seem to be in right now. Um, there's another space, it's not really uh social media, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on, you know, churches post-COVID world that we're in now. Um, everybody went online, they had to. And so now you find where churches are really struggling with presenting the service online because they want to engage with people who that's gonna be their first impression of the church. But then people have started to stay at home and that it becomes a version of church for them. So how do they balance the being present, but then people not taking that next step of actual face-to-face community because there's something a little easier being offered?

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Yeah, I I'd say that's it's probably been a bit of a problem solution mismatch. Okay. So the fact that I can put my sermon online is it's actually uh it's an acknowledgement that what I'm putting online is a is a uh a learning opportunity. Uh it's a uh a teaching opportunity, and that's been made available to more people and more times and more spaces. And that's good. I mean, it's not a bad thing that that people have uh more ways to connect with uh the scriptures and more ways to uh practically engage with some of the problems that they're facing. That's all a huge, huge win. Uh what you're saying is, hey, they're they're staying home more, they're you know, they're not they're not actually engaging. Uh and I would say that's that's a uh um really points to a larger symptom that the the way in which we've so often structured our churches today, it is the delivery of a piece of content rather than the creation of a sense of community and conversation and and uh fellowship. Yeah. Um, and so I think if we're finding that's the reality, where people are attending our church in person once a month, but they're attending online two other times a month, uh they have stepped into a space where the belief is this is where I learn about God. Um yes, and right there there's more to it than that. That's right. Um, it's where I am a part of a community and the community itself needs me and I need it. Uh, and that's that's the piece that I think is is sometimes missing, right? That used to be the moment uh for a lot of human history where, yeah, knowledge was not available to so many, right? Like maybe they could read, maybe they couldn't write. And then we have the massive literary, um, literacy explosion of the late 1800s, actually really driven in large part by the church, yeah. Uh, which is incredible when you think through and learn about some of that history. Um, but you go, you go from that literary, uh, that literacy explosion to um, you know, a space where that was where you could gather with your community every other day. You're working, right? You're at the factory or you're in the field, you're doing things, um, to the the context now where I I can actually learn and I probably have access to far better teachers uh than than in all of human history, even right. Um wow, just what incredible uh uh teachers and preachers and and expositors there are uh today in the world. Incredible. But that's not the only reason I go to church.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Right? I go because there's community, I go because there's a sense of fellowship, there's a sense of accountability, there's a sense of camaraderie, there's a sense of of, you know, uh at the end of the day, um, if if tragedy strikes my home, uh I'm not going to pull up a video. Right. I'm gonna want somebody to pull up in my driveway.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Right? Yeah. Uh and I think for the pastor today that's that's trying to navigate some of those AI elements, uh, saying, hey, I've got my people constantly turning to those places. Um, I would say this is the key moment to be uh to be as present as possible. Um and and to develop in the leaders that you're working with, right, uh a sincere renewal of the practice of presence, uh, where it's hey, we're we're gonna practice being present with one another, uh, because in that presence, uh, we'll earn the the opportunity to to really minister to one another. Um and and again, move beyond. Uh, because I've got a lot of people, and this is this isn't a new problem, okay? Let's remember, right? Uh I I have been reading and studying what people have said about God, even though they have long been dead, right? People wrote books eight for for a super long time. Sure. Um, and those books continue to minister and continue to teach and continue to disciple. So it's not it's not an unheard of thing. Correct. Uh the problem is when they're dead, you can't really talk to them anymore. You can't actually be in a relationship. Uh and so, in the same way, uh, in these digital spaces, yeah, they're still alive, but they're so detached from where you are in space and time, it can be really hard to have any any kind of real relationship with them. Correct, yeah. So that's where we got to step in and yeah and love our people well in the process.

A Path From Content To Community

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Yeah, I I I love that, Daniel, and I want to thank you for that wisdom. Um, and we're in a digital space. This is gonna be in a digital space, and we've really been talking to the people who are trying to get in the digital space, and we're almost out of time. So I thought maybe to close, there's another person who might be watching this, the person who's coming for the content who wants to grow in their faith. And so, what would you say to somebody who finds themselves going to digital spaces more often than a person? What would you say to them to encourage them on how to um increase their Christ-like character outside of a digital space? We welcome them here in the digital space. We love that. But what would you say to somebody who's checked in today that's, you know, they're coming to the digital space more often than not for their discipleship?

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Yeah, I listen, uh, brother, sister, I just want to say uh welcome. I'm so happy that you're here. I'm I pray to God that this serves you and encourages you and helps you think, or maybe even gives you some practices that can help you in your faith. Uh, here's the reality: uh, I'm not walking with you. I'm not literally sitting at the table next to you. I can't see your life and observe you, uh, to be able to give you wise counsel in the midst of your circumstances in life. Uh, and I think the beauty of God is that he himself is communal, he is triune. We are made in his image, and so we too were created to be in community with one another. And that community is not a disconnected, but it's one that that intimately knows one another, right? Uh, if my wife and I are having a fight or a struggle, you would see that and you'd be able to say something to me about it. In the same way, you need to be in community with other people. I'm a huge believer that a local church, a local congregation is fundamental and essential for the uh healthy, successful Christian life that God intends. That's why churches exist even in the most persecuted places on the planet, because believers need to gather together. It's something different when you sit across a table from somebody. It doesn't mean that what we're doing now isn't important and isn't valuable. It just means there is something more to the process. So I want to encourage you to check out your local church, get plugged in, get connected, be in a small group or a Sunday school class, be in relationship with other believers who can help navigate the hard moments when they come. Um and if you're looking, uh, man, I want to encourage you, download the Bible app there. You can actually put in your location and find a local church near you right now. A great way to connect with people that are thinking about the digital space because they're there on the UVersion app, but they're also people that are willing to engage and accept people that walk in the door for the first time. Uh so they've already rolled out the red carpet for you. That's a great place for you to get plugged in. I'd also say, hey, be active in our comment section today. We want to engage with you, we want to connect with you. Uh so if this is helpful in any way, man, be active in the comments. We want to talk, we want to uh uh celebrate with you where you're celebrating and encourage you where you feel things are heavy as a leader. Listen, we know it's hard to lead. And if God is using his people to change the course of history, we know that that's gonna have a lot of difficulties along the way. So we want to encourage you. I think the best way to advance the gospel is a local leader, just like you. So live out these eight core values and you will discover a faithful life well lived, finishing well in a way that glorifies God and advances his kingdom for his glory, for his namesake, and for the good of his people uh all around the world. It's a joy to be here with you. You can find more resources at Ili team.org along the way.