Ep. 99 | Why Intimacy With God Changes Everything

What if the most important part of leadership is not strategy, but closeness with God? In this heartfelt conversation, Norival Trindade and Shannon Jackson explore why intimacy with God is not just meaningful, but essential for every believer and every leader. Drawing from their personal faith journeys, they share powerful stories of transformation, healing, calling, and the daily pursuit of God’s presence. 

Together, they unpack how intimacy with God grounds us in life’s biggest decisions, strengthens us in moments of struggle, and gives us the joy, clarity, and power to keep moving forward. You will hear practical reflections on prayer, Scripture, silence, solitude, fasting, and serving others, along with honest insights about overcoming sin, showing up consistently, and learning to lean in rather than pull away when life feels messy. 

This episode offers both deep spiritual encouragement and practical wisdom for anyone longing to know God more personally and lead from a place of deeper surrender. Tune in to gain insights on building a life rooted in God’s presence and discovering how intimacy with Him can transform the way you live and lead.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:06

Welcome to the ILI History Makers Leadership Podcast. This is Norival Trindaji, and uh I am here with Shannon Jackson. She is um our advancement director. Also, she uh serves as the global executive team member for North America. Shannon, it's good to be here. Yeah, and it's good for us to talk today about a subject that is dear to our hearts, it's dear to ILI's heart, is what is so special about intimate intimacy with God? Right. Why it's we've been hearing people talk about it, you hear it from pulpits. Uh, what is so special about it? And um, and I believe it's gonna be a blessing for the two of us because um it'll it'll help us get to know each other a little better. Yeah, and people will get to know us a little better as well.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Absolutely.

Faith Journeys And Calling

SPEAKER_03 0:58

So I want to start by um just introducing ourselves and our our faith journeys. People know us, but um what's give me the 30-second version or maybe 45 of your faith journey.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Sure. Um so I met Jesus in 2006 sitting in my living room. Uh at that point in my life, I had had a really difficult season of life and didn't believe in the Lord anymore. And um, long story short, I read Hebrews uh chapter, the whole chapter, but at the very beginning it says um by faith. And I didn't believe, um, but that gave me hope to believe. I went to church, gave my life to Christ the next week. I had suffered from infertility um for about three or four years. Since I had gotten married, we hadn't been able to have children. Um, I was healed of my infertility and had my oldest son, who'll be 18. And so um, my children, my marriage, my life, uh literally everything about who I am and everything I breathe is Jesus. And so um it has just catapulted me into intimacy with him.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

Wow, that is a tremendous testimony. I don't have it as exciting a testimony, but the transformation was the same. I I started having doubts about my salvation when I was 12, went to uh youth camp as a lot of people do, and there I heard about grace and I embraced grace. I was saved. I was uh I I I had a a new life. I wanted to to uh reach all my parents, my reach, my parents, my brothers, my pastor, everybody in our church for Jesus because I thought they had never uh really had an encounter with Jesus, which wasn't true. Yeah, um at the around the age of 19, 18, 19, I'm I had another experience with the Holy Spirit where in our all of our church we were filled with the Holy Spirit, filled with a new passion and a new purpose for life. Uh heard God calling me to become a missionary.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 2:56

Uh got after my marriage, I became a medical doctor, and uh we served in Paraguay, South America. From there, we came to teach at ILI.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Uh or to actually lead the training team at ILI when the ILI training team was, I don't know, a few dozen people. Uh we really didn't have much.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

I think you're being very humble right now because weren't you in the room when the whole idea began?

SPEAKER_03 3:24

Well, that's true. That's true. I was in the room, I was in the room, but I was I was still a missionary. I was a volunteer, you know, meeting with peers and friends to start this organization that we didn't even know how it was going to be shaped. Sure. But a few years later, I was invited to join the staff, and that's how I moved to the United States and uh have been uh serving here.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Yeah, and we've been very blessed because of it.

Why Intimacy Grounds Daily Decisions

SPEAKER_03 3:48

Oh, it's been a blessing to me, uh Shannon, to be here. But here's here's here's the the interesting thing. I've always been the practical leadership kind of guy, uh I guess because of my medical uh bit background. Um, but uh since the last probably 10 years, uh the Lord has been speaking to me uh about intimacy. And I have been investing more and more time, and I've discovered more and more about the beauty of uh of having that intimate relationship with God. Um and and I'm I'm on a journey to to do that, uh, to live, to do everything for uh as a real as part of my relationship with God.

Scripture And The Trinity As Relationship

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Yeah, me too. And I think that um in society today, there's so much talk about how do you know you're doing the right thing? How do you know that you should take this job? How do you know you should have kids now? When should you get married? How do you know if that's your wife? Like all these questions that people I think we've grown into becoming almost an overanalyzing society, where for me, my intimacy with God grounds me in I can't really go off the rails if I'm constantly focusing and growing in Christ. Even if I make a bad decision, he's gonna be right there with me and walk me through it. And and that really grounds me in everything that I do. It also um selfishly fills me up. Like our intimacy, like the joy that we have. We're supposed to be able to testify of this joy, give a good account of what makes you so happy, even though things are difficult in your life. That all comes from our intimate relationship with God.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

And it's the it's the power that we get every single day. Um, one of the things when I'm talking about intimacy, uh, that that when I recognize this in my life, I try to share it with other people that, you know, John 1-1 says that Jesus was the word. He is the word of God made flesh. We get the opportunity every single day to be with Christ by reading his word.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Every single day. It's it's by choice if we don't, but every day we get the opportunity to literally be with him and who he is. He gave his life for that word. He is that word. He came and embodied it. And it he's still here with us even now. Like we get to experience him every single day, fresh and new, just by opening up the Bible, you know?

SPEAKER_03 6:28

So yeah, that's that's the essence of what intimacy with God actually is. Um, one of the one of the most impactful lessons I've learned is well, you talked about Jesus. Jesus is the second person of the Trinity. And in in Christianity, we we we believe in this God who is one and three at the same time, and he's not a single one God, although he is one, but being three, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, God is one person in a relationship within God's self.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Right.

Intimacy As Protection From Sin

SPEAKER_03 7:07

And that the Trinity is a relationship, a relationship of intimacy with God. Uh, the Eastern believers call it a dance. Um do they really? They do, they call it the the word is pericuresis, it's a Greek word that uh you hear from them. Oh, you gotta you gotta hear you read that because it's beautiful. They talk about a dance of Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. And and the cool thing is that we are called to enter this dance. We are called to enter a relationship with God. And and that's where the the the idea of an intimate relationship with God. We are, I'm pretty sure we are the only faith that claims that uh that its adherents or its believers are able to actually have an intimate relationship with God, which um the Bible gives us various images and we teach that. Yeah, um, I love the image of a friend, the idea that God's my friend, God was Abraham's friend, um, God was Moses' friend. Jesus said to his disciples, I call you friends. Um, and it's amazing to think it's just it's mind-blowing actually to think that we can have this type of relationship with God. It is through Christ, because of Christ, obviously. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

Uh now, why why do you think it is so important? Why do you think a relationship, intimate relationship with God is so important for us?

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Um that's such a good question. Um I don't know how we I guess the analogy in my mind, I hope it makes sense to all of you watching, but it's like, how do we breathe without air? You know, the psalmist said um that he deeply desired Christ or deeply desired God so much, like as if he was parched for water. Like he his soul was desperately needed to be with God. And so um I don't know how we live without knowing him. Like everything that we do and everything that we are is is who he is, and we become more like him. We were created to be a reflection of his glory. And so, how can we glorify someone that we don't know?

SPEAKER_03 9:37

Yes, there is it's almost like intimacy of with God is not an option if you love him. Yeah, it's not an optional, it's not I want to have any it is there.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Yeah. Um I think I I would like to say though, I think he draws us into himself, like he beckons us to come because none of us desires a relationship with him more deeply than he desires one with us. Right. And so he draws us to himself, and it's up to us to answer the door. He stands, he knocks. And so we get to enter into that relationship that he's calling us into.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

Yeah. Shannon, there's a there's a well-known uh writer, medieval writer called Brother Lawrence. Um here's here's here's something he said. We should establish ourselves in a sense of God's presence by continually conversing with him. That so much that it was a shameful thing to quit his conversation to think of trifles or fooleries. Or he said, Let all of our employment be to know God. The more one knows him, the more one desires to know him.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

I agree.

SPEAKER_03 10:49

He's one, he's one of the great writers in the area of intimacy. The book that where I quoted these two uh lines is from is called The Practice of the Presence of God. Um and it's it's about God being your all. And uh there's another book by a uh a contemporary writer, a Brazilian writer. It's called in Portuguese, obviously, it's called Until Nothing Else Matters. Um that intimate relationship with God that is until nothing else matters.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

Um, but uh of course um intimacy with God is also a safeguard against um the breaking of our relationships with others, um uh our some of our behaviors, sure, uh, some of our thoughts, aka sin. So an intimacy with God safeguards us against sin.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

Uh and the goal is to be so ra so wrapped with the presence of God that sin becomes a non-option.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

Uh it just it just we just can't do it.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Yeah. I agree. I think um practically there's probably people watching who are struggling with sin that think they have a relationship with God and they don't know how to manage that wrestling. Um, and I'll just encourage you that um I was in a season of of mental sin, I guess you could say, just like the thoughts of that I was having just were not holy thoughts. And because of that, and I I didn't know anything about spiritual warfare, I was newer in in my faith, and I got embarrassed and was afraid to be in communion with God because I didn't know how to get rid of the thoughts that I was having. And so I stopped reading my Bible during that season, and I was just so embarrassed and afraid of what God would think of me of because of the thoughts I was having. Um, that season ended. Um, I ended up, you know, the next time I opened up my Bible and was praying, I distinctly heard the Lord say to me that I would never be able to overcome sin unless I stayed in his word, because the very weapon needed to overcome those thoughts and that sin is the word of God. And so maybe if you're watching now and you're struggling with that and your intimacy with God, I want to encourage you to get in your word even when you don't feel like it, that God is not afraid of the thoughts you have, he's not afraid of the sin that's tempting you. He has a way out, he has a plan and a purpose for your life, and you can go deeper in that by reading God's word.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Absolutely. Uh something that I that I I heard recently um from somebody is that, and and you're you you you're you were an example of that. A lot of times when we struggle with sin, um, and it it doesn't have to be anything big. Sometimes it's a little thing, but when we struggle with sin, we tend to back out of the relationship because we don't feel we're we're worthy, where actually God calls us to lean in and go to him with all the junk. Sure. He can handle the junk, yeah, right. He wants to, he wants to, and he can handle my junk. Jesus died for my junk. Absolutely. So that idea of, and I've learned about this. So so when I'm struggling with sin, lean in. Open up.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Yeah.

Prayer Habits And Three Minutes Silence

SPEAKER_03 14:28

Uh if you're angry, just tell him. Just tell him. Be angry. It's okay to be angry with God. That's that's an it's a lot of the psalms are lamentations. I mean, David was a real good guy, but he was seriously depressed because he he like he complained in a in a in a good way. He but that's what he did. He leaned into God with all of his uh with all of his uh problems and flaws, and the the kings that were trying to come and kill him, and Saul that was trying to kill him. Uh so how do we do this? How do we develop this intimacy with God? That's the thing. What do we do for it? And and I know the answer everybody uh teaches it, and it's um two thousand two thousand years of the church and scriptures, and we have a series of practices, right? That we do and that the church teaches and that people have been doing it for two two thousand years that we can uh uh uh come closer to God, engage in that process. And um okay, the first one is prayer. Let's talk a little bit about prayer.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 15:55

Um what is your prayer life like?

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Um I'm one of those people that believes in prayer closets. Oh yeah. Um so I have a a little closet, uh almost embarrassed to share, but it's like a tiny coat closet that I go sit in the bottom of, and I have like a mat down there and stuff. Um but I think for me that helps me because it's a designated place that I go to meet with God. Um like in the mornings, if I'm still drinking my coffee, I go have coffee with Jesus. It's like really informal, but I had heard someone share once that if you had a lunch date with somebody and you canceled on them every single day, eventually that you know, you're you're just bailing on the relationship. And so just mentally it helped me to think I'm having coffee with Christ in the mornings and I'm not gonna bail on him. Um, he's showing up for me, so I want to show up and be a part of it. Um, so daily time in God's word, praying for people. Um, you know, I learned from you actually, um, how you do the silence for three minutes. So I started practicing that after I read the word. I'll be silent for three minutes and just try to hear from from God anything He has.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

That's that's exactly that's that's well let's let's uh piggyback on that one because that's something that I've learned and I've been doing too that three minutes. And by the way, it it's it's a simple thing. When you sit down in your closet or wherever you pray, if you're walking, the first three minutes, uh, just sit down. I I put a timer on my on my watch, and for three minutes, you're quiet. And uh, and you say, Oh yeah, this is not gonna work for me because I have all these thoughts. I do too. And you probably do. There's no way we're gonna avoid those. The way I do that, and it sounds a little Eastern mysticism, but it's it works. It's just I try to listen to my breath and at the same time kind of think of Jesus. And in does it work? Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes I think I go all over stuff. Um, a couple days ago, God spoke to me right there. So we all, you know, there was something. God gave me a one particular instruction, which I haven't followed yet. Um to text somebody to something. Actually, the interpretation of their dream.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Oh, that is amazing.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

But it was the first time that happened. Most times it's either I'm partially successful at being quiet, or um, or I have to give all that 350 thoughts that came to my mind in three minutes to God.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:31

And that's what you do, you give it to Him, and then you start praying.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

And I love that you're saying that because it you're not perfect every single time. You're really never gonna show up perfect. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

It's been okay, yeah, and it's been good a few times.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

But I think the goal is showing up.

SPEAKER_03 18:46

The goal is showing up. I like that. Yes. Lean showing up and leaning in. Just just just God is there. Jesus is there. One of I I'm a prayer closet guy too. I wish I was one of those guys that walk in the wind in the woods because then we would be different. But we are similar in that. I love my closet. It's just my office at home, and I sit there every morning and uh and I do my third three minutes. Um, I pray the the Lord's Prayer, and then then I go to go on the word, listen to see some uh uh devotionals and all of that. But that has that has been a practice that has really enriched me. But in the last couple years, I have also learned about that morning devotions are not enough. And so I'm I'm I'm trying to have a noon time and an evening time. And um, and I will have to put a put a little plug for uh for an app here. Um it's called Lectio 365.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Yeah, okay. I've heard of that.

SPEAKER_03 19:51

Uh they will they will they will guide you in the morning at noon and in the evening, and it's it's um, you know, it it was created by Pete Grieg from the 24-7 movement in England, prayer movement, and it's very rich. Um, it's a rich devotion in the morning, it's a brief uh devotion at noon, and then a night, uh an evening uh brief thing that uh with Bible readings and repetition that you I like to put it in my uh in my airpods before I sleep, and I oh wow, I often wake up in the middle of the night with our airpods on and I have to take out, but that's oh wow, that's how it works.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:33

So prayer, that time together with prayer, the word. You mentioned that you also um go to the word, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:43

I do. I read the Bible, uh, the whole Bible every year.

SPEAKER_03 20:46

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Yeah. Um and there was one year when I was doing it, I had done it probably three years in a row, and someone, I was at a table, and somebody uh who didn't know me at all was talking about those people who read their Bible every year, and how there's no way you can possibly grasp all the information. And I allowed that to like really cause doubt that I was even being successful in why am I doing this? Um, but I learned something every single year. Like I feel like there's some day every year that something stands out to me. And this one is hilarious. The first time I ever read it in a year, that Job stood out to me, the very end when he's talking about Leviathan, and just you know, God made that, and no man can control it. You can't even pierce it with a spear, and that just rocked me for all year. I couldn't stop thinking about it. And last year, um, it's quite hilarious to me, but it was Leviticus. There's a there's a in chapter 26, it talks about um Christ dwelling among them with attentive meeting, I think it is. Um, but anyways, it's talking about him dwelling amongst them. And as I was reading, It and just pondering it. And then even continuing, obviously, I'm still thinking about it today, a year later, that we are so close, that God is so close to us, even if we don't know him. So even people who don't know him, maybe someone who's in sin, an atheist, whoever it is, at the mention of his name, at the briefest turn to his direction, he is right there to save them and rescue them. He is that close to us at all times that when we turn our life to him and we we you know commit ourselves to him. Like I was sitting in a living room, like I said at the beginning, completely unbelieving in Christ. Yet he came and he rescued me.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

Well, yes. That's that kind of reminded me of another concept that I've been hearing recently, and I want to explore that, is the idea that when we when you say God is close, it's not like God is next to me here. I am if in him we live and move and breathe. So we are like the air we breathe, we are immersed in the presence of God. So, and and and this is the whole universe. So it doesn't matter if you believe it or not. It doesn't matter if you're in a moment of growth or even in a moment where you're shrinking from our faith. It doesn't matter if you're deconstructing your faith. We are immersed in the presence of God. Those of those of us who believe and those of us who pursue intimacy become aware of that person's presence. It's not that that presence comes to us, it is there already.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

And that's a great lesson from Scripture. I have a different approach to Scripture. I don't think I've ever done the one-year thing. I have read through the scripture um more than once, but I'm a meditative kind of guy. So I will I will hang on to a book for a year.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

I've gone um and I've meditated on the on the Gospel of John almost all of last year.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Oh, that's my favorite.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

And uh and I stopped because of Christmas, because we wanted to do Christmas. And and at some point, probably February, I'll start over again. I'll have to figure out where I was. But yeah, and uh I love that you can go back to a passage over and over and over again, and there will be something special for you there.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

It can even move you to tears.

Serving Others As A Bond With God

SPEAKER_03 24:27

Oh, yes, a passage that you've heard all of your life, all of a sudden makes sense, it makes sense, or something that you've never seen in it makes sense. Now, there's another practice um uh that uh that builds our intimacy with God, which seems like it wouldn't, is the service to others when we when we serve others, um like going to Nigeria, like you did, serving the leaders over there. Um how do you sense that how does that build your intimacy? Did you you you have any sense of how it did?

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Yeah, um, I think when we serve others and we live in submission to how God desires us to serve people with all of our heart selflessly, then when that when someone that we're serving is blessed by that, it just brings a deeper sense of the awareness of of Christ in your life. You're you're literally being his hands and feet. And it removes any type of this was me, I did this. It's more a refreshing sense of being a servant of his and reflecting him in a way that actually touched someone's life. Like it's hard to put into words what it feels like to know that God said, go here, do this, and then someone's life is transformed because you did that. Um it feels incredible. It's like a bond between you and God. Yes. That he trusted you to do it, and then you were obeyed him, and then he used it for his glory. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:07

And your experience could be called spiritual, but uh, I'm recalling um the joy of hearing God's voice telling you to give 20 bucks to somebody to for fuel money or a hundred dollars for somebody to to to buy groceries.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Yeah, or call this person.

Silence Solitude And Fasting Breakthroughs

SPEAKER_03 26:24

Or um, as I did before, one day one time um this this person's two children needed headphones for this for school. And I went and ordered headphones and had them delivered to their home. That felt me that was an experience of growing closer to God, to being Jesus for those two kids who could have a headphone for their school activities.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

Um, and then one that I I really is one of my favorite, or maybe my favorites, is silence and solitude. We talked about the three and a half minutes of silence and solitude, but uh yeah. It's uh it's a tough one these days. I've heard yesterday that the church evangelicalism is loud. We have um we have kind of neglected silence in our traditions. Um, you know, we've got these bands and amplifiers and and smoke and lights and all of that. Yeah, silence is uncomfortable. Silence, oh yeah, and you and you quiet down, whew, people are uncomfortable. Um I heard Francis Chan preaching in in Brazil one day, and so he was preaching, he was gonna start. He stood there in silence for I don't know, it's it sounded like 10 minutes, but it was probably two or three. Right. But it was two or three minutes that he was quiet, just looking down. Then he said a word here and there, and it you could feel you know the the the discomfort. But we need to learn, yeah. We have too many distractions. And uh we do. But here's uh so that silence, that being quiet, that being in solitude, and solitude is not being alone. Solitude is different than being alone, is is is uh wiping out all distraction and drawing closer to God.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Right.

SPEAKER_03 28:16

Um then fasting, that's another one. We we worship food. Um, I preached on fasting one day and I said we are a generation, we take pictures of our foods and post it on Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Yeah, we do.

SPEAKER_03 28:32

So do you have any experience with fasting? I know we're not supposed to to say much about our fasting.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Um, yeah, I have tremendous experiences with fasting, um, especially uh early in my faith. Um a brief testimony. I with my second son I experienced some severe postpartum um depression, because that can happen, you know, with kids with for women when we have children, yeah. And um, I just felt God said fast. And so no time frame, no time limit or anything. And so I fasted and I don't know if I would recommend this for anybody, but I just felt like God in my heart it was like fast until that breaks. And I did, and it went away. I think it was three days and it was gone. Wow. Um, but it was just like something that God wanted to use to break off, you know. I I think God's word says, is it Matthew 21 or it says um maybe it's 721 that this type only comes out through prayer and fasting when it's talking about like spiritual bondage and strongholds. And so I just trust God knew I needed that.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

Umy, many years ago, uh on another life, if you will, I had a serious issue that I needed a that I needed something to break through in my life. Um it was something personal, very intimate. Um, and I did that. I said, Lord, I'm not gonna touch food until you give me an answer to this. Uh I need a breakthrough. I need a solution to this. And it it was about three days too, three to four days.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

Um, and it happened. God gave me an answer. Um, I went back and I ate. It sounds like uh David when when uh his his uh firstborn son from Bathsheba was born from the the adulterous relation relationship that he had. Yeah, then he fasted, and then the kid the the baby didn't survive. He got up and and ate because that was the answer he needed. So the answer is not always the positive answer, but when we you get an answer.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 30:37

Well, that's a powerful experience. So fasting is probably um it may be the most neglected because we are we are addicted to food.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

And um, and I have to say uh that over the last three or four years, fasting has become a discipline that has drawn me closer, so close, so close to God.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

I agree. And I think no one wants to fast. Yes, it's not something you're like, yay, I'm gonna fast. But it's like by the time you get to the end of whatever regimen you're doing, you don't want it to end. Because there's this closeness and this dependency on God that you don't want to let go of, but you really want to eat, but you also don't want to let go of what that intimacy. Right.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Well, you know what? It's funny. It's I I had that experience a couple of years ago on a on a on a long fast. The day I was supposed to break, I've prayed and I break, broke it, and I went and had my little chicken soup, you know, something light to begin eating. It almost felt like, no, I don't want to eat. I just want to stay here.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Yes.

Intimacy As Leadership Foundation And Closing

SPEAKER_03 31:43

Um, and then for three or four days, every time I sat at the table with my wife to eat, I felt like uh you're missing out. Like I was missing out on something. But so we're talking about all of these amazing practice, but we need to make sure it isn't the practice of the great saints out there, right? Uh this isn't for pastors and great leaders.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

Uh this is for everybody.

SPEAKER_03 32:09

It is for all of us, but it is also foundational for all leadership.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

I agree. And there's a quote that rocked me to my core. I'm gonna share it with all of you. It's from D. L. Moody, and he says that excuses are the cradles that Satan rocks men to sleep in. And so there's always an excuse to not practice spiritual disciplines. There's always an excuse whether you need extra sleep, you don't have time, all these things. Um, St. Francis of Assisi said, if you always say that you don't have time, that means you don't have priorities. Because there should be some sort of priority with your time. Yeah. And spiritual discipline and your intimacy with God should be a high, to me, the highest priority because we believe it's the foundation of who we are and our leadership. And so there's always an excuse to not do it.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

Absolutely, but there's always a reason to do it.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

And um, I hope this was a blessing to you. Our conversation was enriching. We could go on here for a long time, but we are already um over our usual uh time. If this was a blessing for you, I we hope, Shannon and I, and all of us here at ILI hope that you will seek a life of intimacy with God. And if this episode was a blessing to you, please share it with somebody else. Um, give us a like, make us a comment. All everything you do with this video or podcast helps uh the algorithm push it to other people who might need to hear these words, who might be encouraged by our conversations. Thank you for being with us at the History Makers Leadership Podcast. I hope you will hear us again. God bless you.