ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
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ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Ep. 91 | Why Bible Engagement is Exploding Worldwide
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What happens when the Bible reaches one billion devices and why does it matter for your leadership today? In this episode of the History Makers podcast, host Shannon sits down with Daniel Drewski, president of ILI, to share powerful takeaways from the YouVersion one billion celebration and what it reveals about a growing hunger for truth. Daniel unpacks surprising insights about who is actually using the Bible app, why trust in institutions is fading, and how relationships are becoming the frontline for sharing truth with love.
You will hear why reports of skyrocketing Bible sales are fueling fresh urgency, and how leaders can respond with practical discipleship instead of passive consumption. Daniel also explains a simple framework for multiplying disciples, why you do not need to feel “qualified” to begin, and how finding a mentor can help you take your next faithful step.
Tune in to gain insights on leading with hope, building trust, and stepping into discipleship in this critical moment.
More information about YouVersion and the Bible App at https://www.bible.co
Join a community of leaders who are ready to change history and make an impact in this world. When you take part in ILI training, you will discover how ILI's Eight Core Values will help you transform your leadership. Discover more at ILITeam.org/discover.
Hey, welcome to our History Makers podcast. I'm excited to have a conversation with Daniel Drewski, I ally's president. Uh, he and some of our team recently attended the UVersion 1 billion celebration event. And Daniel has excitedly told some stories and some statistics from this event. And so I'd like to get all of that out. And that passion and that excitement that came from that event was really encouraging to us, to our team. And so, Daniel, I'm excited to talk with you today and hear how your experience there was.
SPEAKER_01:Well, Shannon, I really appreciate it. I think it's incredibly timely for just this moment. I mean, I know we're recording this ahead of time, but but this is typically right around the start of the new year, where so many people really try to focus in on those habits, right? They say, okay, I want to be reading the scriptures, I want to have daily time with the Lord, and they're really trying to develop some of those things. Um it was really encouraging listening to that team, right? I mean, it's to even imagine this point in human history, uh, to have the scriptures on a billion devices is probably the clearest evidence of the spread of God's word across the planet that humanity has ever had, that the church has ever known. And so to reflect on that is actually to acknowledge, wait a second, God, your word is going at an incredible pace around the world. And it's in moments like this at the start of a year where so many people uh who are desperate for truth begin looking in ancient places and saying, God, there's gotta be something here that speaks to my heart, speaks to my heartache, speaks to my sense of longing for purpose or love or understanding of myself, my my worth, my uh identity. And um, and the beauty is we know as followers of Christ that God has so much for us there. And as leaders, we have an incredible opportunity to step into that space uh and to disciple, to mentor, to uh speak truth in love uh as people discover what it is to uh obey all that Christ commands.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's encouraging, and I couldn't agree more. So take us to the conference, the moment. Um, I know you guys got to spend several days there, but what was that like being in the room celebrating one billion people having subscribed to know more about God's word?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I think some of the elements that that I really take away from that time, Shannon, first and foremost, um, the beauty of the body of Christ coming together. Uh, you know, this wasn't one church or one denomination. I mean, life church is a huge uh movement of of men and women, and so I don't want to minimize that the impact that they've made in that process, but they even acknowledged, hey, look, this is bigger than us. This is God's word belongs to the whole body. Uh and so you had you had representation from uh every theological and denominational kind of line that you can imagine. Uh and at ILI, we're big believers and supporters of the Lausanne covenant and and this idea that wait a second, there's a lot of things that we can have strong conviction over, and there's some great things that we can have unity and collaboration over. Uh and so to see that collaboration in the room, to see that celebration of God and his word, its richness, um, the life-giving, uh, it was as if we were kind of living out and embodying Psalm 119, right? Just this testimony to the value and the beauty and the goodness of God and his word. Uh, and so to be there to celebrate that, that that uh particular evening was just so sweet and beautiful. Uh, to be invited as partners um was a wonderful invitation to see how they're trying to uh take some next steps in in strategically using technology to advance the gospel, to advance uh God's word into the hands of men and women. Um, you know, the history of the church is one that has always used technology to advance the gospel. Um even in the writings that we have today, Paul was using the best technology of his day uh to share with people and churches so that uh uh they could understand uh the the teachings that that Jesus has uh because they're life transforming. Absolutely and it's in the midst of that that that you know the church has just continued, right? The the early printing presses, uh the advent of radio and and the internet, uh tools that were very quickly adopted by believers to begin recognizing how do we get uh how do we get God's word into the hands of more people. Uh and even today, right? Knowing uh that there are ministries and organizations, Faith Tech Global, uh Kingdom Code, others that are working diligently to uh leverage, wait a second, man. It I I may be in other parts of the world, but I still have one of these. Right. How can I, how can I get uh the word of God into the hands of uh people that are earnestly seeking uh for something that's real, something that's deep and something that's true? So beautiful time of worship on that particular evening. The the sessions ahead of time were great. It was a just a key moment to have conversations and to work together to say, how do we how do we know who we're serving when we when we write these different programs and and discipleship and and uh devotional plans? Um one thing that really stood out during that conversation to me was the realization that a lot of the people who use a the UVersion app, they're actually not, they're not always a believer. Uh I kind of always picture that if I'm opening up the Bible on my phone, it's because I already believe it.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Um but uh but what those those leaders were communicating was hey, uh, we actually are finding a lot of people open this that don't know. They don't know God's word, they don't know uh who Jesus is, and they don't have a relationship with him. What they do know is that they're hurting. What they do know is they feel anxious or afraid, they feel overwhelmed, um, they feel exhausted by the pace and and uh destructive nature of of the culture or society. Um and they're earnestly seeking for something that is true. Uh, you know, we live in an incredibly distrusting age. There was a um a meta study that came out in oh, I think it was 2022, that was looking at uh a bunch of studies that was done globally, right? So they were looking at uh how how has trust been impacted in um government, in medical institutions, in uh higher education institutions, in uh church institutions, across all these institutional paradigms, how has trust been impacted? Um, and this came out in 2022, and some of it was in response to COVID, but a lot of it was just kind of looking at historical trends. I remember one from uh Poland that just showed um man, just continued decline from the late 90s all the way to today of just ongoing distrust being rooted deep in the minds and hearts of individuals. Um, and this was a secular study, it wasn't uh even looking at church, but uh the the the reality of our current day is that there's a default of distrust that has taken root in the heart of people so that they they genuinely just don't trust what institutions uh say. But the beauty of um the beauty of you know the current reality is while they don't trust institutions or organizations, they still have relationships with people who they do trust. Um, and so uh the value is is uh and really for the for the Christian leader that's that's listening and watching, leader, listen, there's a critical moment today for you. It's not about how much do they trust your church or your business, it's about how much do they trust you and how much have they learned to trust the people that you're leading. Uh, it's actually those key relationships that'll be essential for uh uh the the gospel and the truth of God's word to be uh made known and understood in the lives of people because they're not gonna trust nameless, faceless institutions uh or or even sometimes uh if your name is attached to something like that, uh they care about the friendships and the the close relationships they have that are authentic uh and the truth that that they're sharing there. Uh so those were some of the elements that were really standing out to me as we sat together.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's incredible. What um when you learned that that so many non-believers were going on to the UVersion app and looking for truth there, how did that shift your perspective and how that app could be utilized for leaders?
SPEAKER_01:Oh man. Uh it it shifted my perspective to know uh first and foremost uh that that as a leader, I need to recognize that that could be an incredibly simple, straightforward tool to help the people I'm in discipleship relationships with to engage in making more disciples, right? Um, and saying, wait a second, you know, the 2 Timothy 2-2 model is uh uh a disciple who makes disciples. That's that's the kind of framework we want to have. And so to know, wait a second, it's likely that an unbeliever that I'm I'm relating to or connecting to, they may have the Bible app on their phone. And even if they don't, uh, it's a tool that a lot of people feel comfortable in.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Right now, for a long time, Christian leaders have thought that the front door to their church is the lobby or the real front door. And then they begin to go, no, no, no, it's not that. It's it's it's our online presence, right? It's our sermons online or our website online. Uh, but the reality is it's now uh these other places where people are just encountering scriptures uh or encountering believers who should embody um uh the lived outward. Uh and and so I would say to leaders, recognize this incredible tool that you have at your disposal so that you can uh uh help people discover the truth they're actually longing for, uh the answers that they they really yearn for. Um people are hurting, right? I I don't think Jesus was wrong when he saw that they were helpless, like sheep without a shepherd. Uh and I don't think for a lot of unbelievers today that that's changed. I think they feel helpless and they're hurting and they feel lost. I think those would aptly describe so many people in our communities, so we have the answer.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Uh and we've got beautiful tools uh that that UVersion uh being one of them that we can put into their hands to help them encounter, wait a second, there's an answer. Because the reality is, Shane, I mean, we we have a relationship with Jesus. We have we we we have moments where we hurt, and there are moments where we're we're you know feeling heartache, um, but as we recognize who we are in Christ and whose we are in Christ, uh we don't have that same sense of hopelessness or helplessness. Uh we know that there's one greater, we have one to whom we can turn. Uh and that that's something that the world is is earnestly longing for.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for sure. Now, one of the other statistics you shared with us, which I do not know if it came from this event or something else, was how the sales of Bibles have increased astronomically. That's right. So share a little bit about with us.
SPEAKER_01:It is so awesome, right? And I know leaders are gonna be listening to this at the start of the year. Uh listen, uh, Shannon, this is an incredible moment, right? We've been, we we we saw um in a little bit of 2025 some reports and some some articles coming out about revival taking place in Europe uh among particularly the next generation, right? Young people, 20s, um praising God over that and seeing some incredible research and statistics about that. I know we recorded some podcasts even discussing that, uh, even here in the States. Um, you know, there after a tragedy here in in uh uh the United States, there's there's just kind of this um response and revival taking place among a next generation of young men and women as well. And uh all of these kinds of stories happening in in isolation. Uh but there was a statistic shared, I think it was by the Washington Post, it might have been by the um Wall Street Journal, but it was a again, secular um organization, magazine, uh newspaper that was just sharing uh some statistics that they found shocking, surprising. Uh, and it was 15,000% increase in physical Bible sales happening right now. So as we finish out uh 2024, 2025, uh we're seeing that God's word is entering more and more places. And um, we have the wonderful privilege of working with some incredible partners all around. And and uh there's one that that we work with very closely that has a uh beautiful publishing uh uh business in in ministry. Um and as we were talking uh in in their warehouse, they were showing me some different things. Uh, and he just shared, he said, Yeah, we actually got a call from our Amazon rep. Uh, you know, most books in the states are sold through Amazon, right? I mean, they're the largest distributor of those things nowadays. Um, and their Amazon reps call and say, Hey, we can't keep your stuff on the shelves. Uh, we keep finding trucklet after trucklet arriving, and it's just going out. We just cannot keep it on hand. I've got to talk to your marketing team. Something has changed. You're doing something different. We've got to figure that out because we've got to get better aligned so we can keep your stuff on the shelves. And I got to know, how are you guys marketing this? Like, people keep buying all of these things. They keep buying the Bible, they keep buying devotionals, they keep buying resources to help them grow in their followership of Jesus. What are you doing? And he just started laughing. He said, Man, we have not touched a single bit of our marketing. We haven't changed a single thing. Let me introduce you to the Holy Spirit. Uh, and I can think of no better predictor of revival than the the reality that God's word is is being put into the hands of more people. Uh, I think that's probably the best indicator of revival. And so, uh, as leaders are starting this year, 2026, uh, Shannon, I would say they have got to recognize there's revival taking place around them, yeah. Uh, and they have a part to play in it. I think this is a revival that isn't going to be of one body or like one congregation, but I think it's going to be a revival of the whole body. Um, and as that whole body is revived, the whole body has to be engaged in making disciples. It's not gonna be one leader from one stage. Sure. It's going to be every believer from the pews stepping out of those into groups, into gatherings with people that they know and love, saying, Hey, we're reading this together and finding out what it means to follow in his steps. And that's gonna require not only leadership on our part, but equipping those leaders to be a part of that themselves.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. So it sounds to me like that statistic has really increased your urgency, um, even clarifying the importance of discipleship and mentorship in this season.
SPEAKER_01:Shannon, I I I sincerely believe there is no better, more effective, or fruitful way to advance the kingdom of God and the hope that we have, that hope that's available to all uh in Christ, than for a local leader who knows God's word and is equipped to meaningfully, not just themselves, but others with them, advance God's kingdom, whether that's through uh planting a church or running a business or leading a small group, or quite frankly, just making the daily decisions to live and lead like Jesus, each of those brings uh transformation. And we have communities that are longing for transformation and the prayers of generations who have prayed for revival, being like the fruit of that is bearing today. And so there's, I mean, Jesus said it, right? The harvest is plentiful, the harvest is plentiful, the fields are ripe for harvest. And in John 4, he continues, he says, and the sowers and the reapers will rejoice together. And that's the moment we're in. Some are continuing to sow, some are beginning to reap, but together we're rejoicing because this is a critical moment, and there's nothing uh uh that we can do that that has a greater impact on the longevity and the the multiplication of that than to unleash a local person with influence, a local leader, uh, to advance God's kingdom in that place.
SPEAKER_00:That's powerful. Couldn't agree more. That's what we do here. We try to encourage discipleship. Um and we know that it needs to be a priority, especially in someone who knows Christ. So Well, can I can I pause you there for one second?
SPEAKER_01:Here's what I found. So many people will say yes, it needs to be a priority. And in Shannon, they they believe that. They they they want that, they say yes, but they pass by it so quickly because they have zero plan for doing it.
SPEAKER_03:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:Right? Yep. Uh you're you're not just gonna accidentally come into a leadership development plan. You've got to have one. Yeah, you've got to make it. Um, and and it's something I'm even acknowledging. Wait a second, there has to be a structure behind this. Um, and and it can't be uh, you know, uh uh you know, I used to be a math teacher, uh, and so maybe this is a terrible analogy because so many people hate math. But um, you know, you can learn addition and subtraction, multiplication and division. Okay, but it has its limits of usefulness because if you don't know what the value is is that you're trying to add or subtract, you can't do any more math. Right. Right? That's why algebra exists, is because sometimes I don't exactly know, but if I abstract this enough, if I kind of remove the detail that's necessary in the moment, kind of step back a little, okay, uh, I can now do some some new calculations. And the reality is for leaders, it's not just about teaching a person to accomplish a task. It's actually about discipling a person in the ways and practices of Jesus and the Christ-like character of Jesus, such that even when they encounter a new thing that was previously unknown, they have some kind of set of principles. But that's a hard thing to do, Shannon. And it's really hard. And so when leaders go, hey, I've got to develop other leaders, I've got to figure out this process, I know that that's important, I know it should be a priority, they get overwhelmed at the moment they start thinking, how do I do that?
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:How? How? And that's why I love the fact that that ILI has existed for 20 plus years, that we have this material and resource that's available in 60 languages, because it gives that freely to men and women who are earnestly saying, wait, I need to be discipled and I gotta have a tool that disciples others.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Absolutely. That's incredible. So I've got a couple of questions to try to see which which one to go to first here. So I'm gonna go first to the leader. I don't want them to check out. So if you're hearing about discipleship, you've always wanted to, but you're you're checking out on the conversation because you don't feel qualified. So often people do not feel that their life qualifies them to be someone that can disciple another believer. So, how can we encourage and challenge them to take that step of discipleship?
SPEAKER_01:Well, Shannon, uh my first, my first thought is probably uh the moment you think you feel qualified, you should probably pause for a second.
SPEAKER_00:That's good, good advice. I love that.
SPEAKER_01:You know, there's there's there's always righteous humility and then there's unrighteous self-degradation, self-hate.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, and that's what the enemy can try and turn that to. And so if you're a leader out there that's struggling, thinking, hey, I don't, I don't know if I'm really qualified for this, I would just encourage you. Peter denied Christ, okay? Um, in his most dire moments. In fact, they all abandoned him uh in some way, shape, or form. Um, every person we follow in the scriptures, uh particularly in the New Testament anyway, they were all in prison at various points in time. Um anything that you might think for a second disqualifies you. Uh, the reality is uh it it's just not that way. Uh and fundamentally, to follow Jesus' way is to make disciples, because Jesus was a disciple maker. Uh and so Shannon, when people struggle with that, it's sometimes because they feel like they have to have attained some level of holiness or some level of um self-righteousness. But the reality is our righteousness is in Christ alone. It is never my own righteousness that makes me worth anything. Um, and if I rest on that, I rest on a very, very shallow, insecure, and unhelpful platform. But when I recognize Christ has given me his righteousness and I'm allowed to be a failure, uh, he wasn't.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That's where I look to for my successes. So for a leader that's struggling, saying, Hey, I don't know if I'm really in a spot here where I should be doing this, listen, um, the best learning you can do is in the process of teaching somebody else. I learn more during these kinds of conversations because I'm having to think about, I'm having to answer these questions. Um, and so I would argue that's probably just a distraction of the enemy. And I'd also suggest if you really like you're hearing this and leader, you're still going, I don't know, I don't know. Find a mentor yourself. Listen, you don't need to be a Paul without a Timothy, but you also don't need to be a Timothy without a Paul. Have somebody who's poured into you who can speak truth over you, see what's in you when you can't see it yourself. And Shannon, finding that person. Uh, and being open to their comment, rebuke, thought, correction, uh, coming to them and saying, hey, am I even in a position where I should be doing this? Yeah, they're gonna know, hey, this is a season where you need to pause because God's doing this, this is, uh, so this is what it needs to look like. But if if that's holding them back in a falsehood, uh, they'll be able to speak into that as well. And uh I would I would say for most people, your pastor's a great place to start for that. Talk to your pastor, talk to the the leaders uh of your church if you got a bishop or elders or lay leaders or whatever that structure looks like. Small group leader, talk to the leader that's pouring into you most readily. Uh, and in that relationship, you'll discover some truths about yourself that'll help you be prepared.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's fantastic advice. I I would only add that for me, when I was new to faith, yeah, what really helped me is just growing a Christ with another person and reading the Bible together. And now as I've continued that and read with other people, when I get to read the Bible with a new believer and hear their perspectives and their passion and their hunger, it's so encouraging. And so even if you are a new believer, you know, checking out this podcast, I encourage you, like what Daniel said, getting a mentor, because it's so fun for uh just to grow together in God's word.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and and I think we can forget, but but in that great commission, Jesus says, and I will be with you. As we go about that work of teaching people to obey all that Christ commands, yeah, right. Um, He promises to be with us. And so we get to experience His presence with us as we go through that together.
SPEAKER_03:Sure.
SPEAKER_01:Uh and that's a beautiful thing that it strengthens us, encourages us, builds our own faith.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and so uh for the leader that's saying, I don't know if I'm ready for that, uh, let me just say there's sweetness on the other side.
SPEAKER_00:Um great advice. Yeah. So I think kind of like a general rule is always with some of these questions, go and speak with your pastor, speak with leader. But we also do um deal with and minister to and have a lot of relationships with leaders around the world and in our own context here. So in that way, we do know there's gonna be people watching who have felt that call that they need to disciple, that they're certain that that's something God's put on their heart to do. And they've maybe even delayed a little bit not knowing what to do. So, what are some practical steps they could take to get that process going?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so um, you know, if you've got if you've got a sense of God's call in your life that that you need to be engaging in uh active discipleship, I'd say, praise God. I mean, that's a good thing. Yeah. Uh start with one, right? Find somebody uh that's willing to sit down with you, uh, that's willing to uh read through God's word together. You know, gosh, even if it's something as simple as uh, you know, we we both listened to the sermon this week and we're just gonna we're just gonna talk about it. Oh, yeah. We're gonna share three things. Even if it's a text or WhatsApp thread of just saying, hey, here are three takeaways I got this week from the message. Um, because it can be easy to become a consumer Christian where all we do is just consume, consume, consume. Uh I know there was definitely seasons in my life where I probably listen to four or five sermons in a given day. But if you ask me now, how have I applied any of that? Well, I don't really know.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Um, I'd like to, you know, and I know God's word never falls, uh um without without uh accomplishing the reason for which it was sent. Yeah. But, you know, gosh, it probably could have done more in me if I had been listening, paying attention, and paused for reflection. Uh that's one of the things I know that that we do now in our home quite quite frequently, actually every week, is when when the lesson's over, we're saying, okay, I'm not gonna speak aloud in a in a committed group of believers, uh, what I'm gonna apply, what I'm feeling conviction over, what I'm feeling called to, where I need accountability. Um, this is how this scripture and this lesson is going to be made manifest in me this week. Uh and it's not that everybody always has super clarity on that, but it's not always about me, right? It's it's about it's about the body. And so sometimes we can we can navigate that together. Uh but if if you're sitting there as a leader and you're thinking to yourself, hey, I I feel called to disciple, uh, start with one. Start with one. Um, and start with one in a model that is, you know, maybe reflected in how you're being discipled too. Um uh and just kind of walking through those things would be a great place to start, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_00:That's great. Um, you sort of touched on my next question. Yeah, yeah, which I'm so happy that you did. So, why do you believe 2026 needs to be a year that believers stop consuming and start discipling?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, Shannon. It's because God is working, his spirit is alive and active. And it it's not that it's never not been, right? It's always been so, so active. Um, but this is a critical moment where people are starving. They're starving. And what happens when you start starving is you start eating things that aren't good for you. You start looking for things that have actually been poisoned. And so this is the key moment to say, hey, there are hungry, thirsty people that are longing for uh clear insight, biblical teaching, understanding. Uh they're longing for sincere followership of Jesus. Uh, and I really think we should note uh they're not gonna find sufficient answers in an AI or in um, you know, some other place. Uh we know that God made people in his image. Uh, we are his image bearers for a reason. Um, it is through relationships and people and individuals that we will grow in our knowledge and followership of Jesus. Uh 2026 is the year for disciple making because it's the year that's following some of the greatest moments of revival that you and I have ever lived in. So we've got to step into that. Um, it's not just going to be some map or some kind of a process, it's going to be intentional relationship building and individuals within the body saying, wait a second, uh everything I've consumed, I'm going to give myself the accountability to deliver it to someone else. So when you have something that you receive that makes sense to you, that resonates in your heart and head, your immediate next question should be, God, who else is this for?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right? And that can be a real simple trick in your own head, right? I'm listening to this sermon. I don't want to be a consumer. I want to be a contributor to the global great commission that God is working out in this day and this time. How do I do that? When I consume something that means meaningful to me, and I go, wow, God, you just spoke to me. My immediate next prayer, God, who else do you have this for? Yeah. It's not just for me. It's never just for me.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, it's always for me and someone else. So who is that next person? Yeah. And Shane can be easy as saying, hey, I was listening to this. This really stood out to me, and I just wanted to shoot it to you. I hope it encourages you. I hope it challenges you. Hope it makes you grow. Hope it uh supports you, whatever. And just take that sentence and just shoot it right to them. And suddenly you've got uh uh you've gotten yourself into a habit of no longer consumer, but can contributor to the great work that God's that's great.
SPEAKER_00:And that, you know, we both are familiar with DBS. Oh yeah, and that's the last thing. It's who do I need to share this message with? It's a way to evangelize and to share with someone that needs that hope. And so it's good to always keep that in the forefront of your mind when you're reading God's word. Who could this be for? Um, what uh how is it going to be applied to my life? How is it changing me, you know, and allowing those changes and allowing that evangelism and and hope to go beyond yourself and into others?
SPEAKER_01:Well, we we know that the the Jesus way, the better way, is one that thinks of self less and others more. Right?
SPEAKER_03:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:And so how do we step into that? Yeah, it's by realizing that when God gives me something, it's a beautiful gift for me. And I can I can hold that and I can receive that, I can feel his love and embrace, and it does not cheapen it, it does not weaken it, it does not devalue it to give it away.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:In fact, it is more blessed to give than it is to receive. And so, whatever he's just given me, the moment I give it away, its value even increases for me in my own life. And I think that's true of the teachings that Jesus is giving us. Uh, and so if we want to step into this next year, uh, we want to see something different in our own lives, uh, be radically generous with everything that Jesus teaches you. Absolutely. Uh, and you'll see transformation in your life that's uh well world-changing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um I've got uh just a couple more left. Um, but one thing you're touching on is the leader who has felt that call to disciple others. And I know for me personally, and if it happened to me, I'm sure it happened to others, you you feel that at the beginning of the year, and you want to champion it, and you're excited about it, and then life happens. And so, you know, how do you keep that consistency and the tenacity that's necessary to invest in someone, let's say for a year or so, you take time, invest in them a year or six months. How do you how do you find the strength to keep going in that one? It it it does get hard. You know, those first couple of meetings are exciting and all that, but that can tend to wane off a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:Man, you know, that that's a tough one. And um uh I think I think if I had a real simple, straightforward, perfect answer, um, well, I'd probably ought to write a book. Uh because I have a feeling maybe you should. Uh yeah. Uh I have a feeling people would would uh find it appreciated.
SPEAKER_03:Sure.
SPEAKER_01:Um I think my general thoughts are are as follows. If you wanna if you if you want to stick to something, um you have to want it so much you're willing to say no to really good things. Uh there's an infinite number of good things that will come our way that are not the great thing that God up God called us to.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And you gotta say no to really good things. Uh, you gotta be willing to say no to really good things. Um, you know, one of the core values that we teach here is family priority. And um uh one of the notes that that we've discussed just throughout this year um is that I can't call it a priority. I can't call family priority a priority if I'm not saying no to something really important for my family.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Because otherwise it's just family convenience.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And if discipleship's a convenience for you, you won't make it through the year.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:It won't.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That relationship, there's there's too many things over the course of a year that will come in that will be good things. Uh if it's a priority, it means I'm not doing more than this. This is the thing that I'm doing. And it won't get moved from the schedule. Um, it won't get bumped, it won't get whatever. Uh, and and you know, I know, I know sometimes I've struggled with, hey, if I'm putting it on the calendar, does that devalue it? Does that make it suddenly now like, you know, programmatic and not personal? Um, and my answer to that is simply no, I put things on the calendar that matter to me. Because if I don't put them there, they may not happen.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:But if I do put them there, I can guarantee that it's protected and it's cared for and it's going to take place. Um, and that's where I would say uh to any leader who's saying, Man, I really don't want this to end, hey, build the habit.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Build the habit, protect the habit, put it on a calendar somewhere, right? Mark it down. Um, and and make sure that you commit at a level that you can commit to.
SPEAKER_03:Sure.
SPEAKER_01:Right? If I said, hey, every week I'm gonna sit uh with this person for an entire day. Well, the realities of my life, I can't do that. I can't do that. Um, but here's what it can look like. Once a quarter, I'm gonna sit with, you know, Brendan. Once a quarter, I'm gonna sit with Hunter, and we're gonna make sure that we spend some time together. I'm gonna know enough about them and their families that I can continually pray for them. Um, and we're gonna message in between our physical in-person meetings to figure some of those things out in between. Um that's that's it. It's, you know, I I don't think it's probably some kind of a magic trick. I think it's really just saying, no, I'm willing for people to hear a no from me and not feel like I'm failing because I've said yes to one thing already that could be world-changing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And I know you actually speak that here often that when we say yes to something, it means we're saying no to something else. And so I appreciate that because our calendars, they do get full. Our workloads, it does increase. And so if you're you're watching here, when you say yes to something, it means you do have to say no to some other things, and you need to value what are your priorities, what are the priorities God's put in your life, what is God's vision for your life, and what priorities do you need to have in order to accomplish that? And we believe discipleship is critical.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Um, as believers, um, it should be a part of our walk um on the regular basis, unless we just need to take a season to be poured into for various reasons that can happen. Um, so I don't want to make everyone watching feel like you should be discipling, but the majority we do always really try to encourage discipleship as part of your regular And Shannon.
SPEAKER_01:I I I think one other thought that I uh just came to me as you were speaking. For some people, saying no feels like such a negative. But if if if they in their head and heart got to a place where you realized me saying no is me saying yes. And so when when I tell you no, I'm actually gonna say no, Shannon, I can't do this because I said yes to doing this. And if I connect those together, right, then in my heart I can feel more peace about wait a second. I said no to discipling this other young man because I said yes to discipling my children.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Because I said I was going to do that and I'm going to do that, right? I said yes to having a family, and that comes with responsibilities. Sure. And I'm not going to exchange a spiritual opportunity or I'm not going to exchange my spiritual responsibilities for spiritual opportunities. I'm going to hold to those things that God has held me to. Um, and so it it's those kinds of things. If we can connect the, if we can hear in our head and our heart that a no is a yes, every no is a yes to this thing. It's a recommitment, uh, then we strengthen. And if we if we go, wait a second, I don't need to keep committing to this. It's no longer worth it. Right. It's no longer the focus than freedom. And now you can make that shift. Um, but you don't want that to happen by accident. And for a lot of people, that's what happens to their plans, right? It just kind of fades away. Yeah. It withers away rather than intentionally stopping.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And that's an okay, that's an okay thing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I love that. Spiritual responsibility over spiritual opportunity. That's a good word there.
SPEAKER_01:Um I mean, hey, look, uh, I know that there are some denominations and and lines of theology and faith that that really talk about covenantal theology, right? When we've made a commitment to something, it means something.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and that commitment can have an end date.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, you know, there can be there can be a conclusion to that because the the objectives of the the covenant have have been met. Um and when that time comes, it's okay. Yeah. What doesn't work is when you just kind of fizzle away and there was never a thing. Sure. Right. That's not a healthy end to those programs.
SPEAKER_00:And you bring up something practically, um, not to get too much in the weeds of discipleship, but uh practically speaking, especially with mentorship relationships, it's great to start with an end date and say, this at this time, after six months or after a year, we're gonna reevaluate and see if this relationship should continue in this capacity. Um, because that gives each of you an opportunity to know, I'm gonna do it at least for this long with this commitment, and then we'll re-evaluate it. So if one of the parties feels okay, this isn't working any longer, or you know, another spiritual responsibility has come about, then it's an easy break for both people and still holds the value of that relationship for that time period.
SPEAKER_01:Wonderful practice. Yeah. Um wonderful practice, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's great. Well, I've got um one question left for you, sir. Um, as we step into the new year, what's one challenge you would like to leave with someone that's listening that could potentially change their spiritual life in 2026?
SPEAKER_01:One challenge that I would give them that could change their life spiritually. Shannon, I think uh I think my challenge would be don't don't sit on the sidelines. There's never been a moment in history where God has not been working and active and ready for people to join in his work. Uh there's never been a moment where he hasn't been prepared to receive us with our brokenness and our woundedness and to redeem those things into transformational stories in our life and in the lives of others. And I think the saddest thing would be to end 2026 and to think back and to say, I didn't participate in any of the things that God was doing around me. I think that that would be the most heartbreaking way to end the year. So my challenge would be engage where God is working. Yeah, He's working all around us. Shannon, we see thousands being baptized in Ethiopia. We see men and women across persecuted enclosed nations coming to radical new faith. We see revival in next generations of movements of men and women. We see deep longing for God's word like never before. This is an unbelievable moment for the people who love and know Jesus to take a radical step of obedience. And that doesn't mean that they have to sell everything they own and go travel across. It just means that they radically obey what Jesus says. When the Spirit says go, they go. When the Spirit says speak, they speak. When the Spirit says be quiet, be quiet. When the scriptures teach them to manage their money one way, they manage their money that way. When the scriptures teach them to walk a certain way, they walk that way. I I think for this the Christian leader that's listening today, my challenge would be don't see others sitting on the sideline. Create mechanisms and pathways for them to join in the work and not your work, the work, the kingdom work. Don't let them think that they're a part of your big plan. They're a part of God's bigger work. And when they see themselves as the hands and feet of Jesus being actively used, that radically transforms their faith. So for the Christian leader listening, don't miss this. It's not about your ministry or your calling or your activity. It's about the work that God is doing. And you have the beautiful privilege of shepherding people into God's greater work, and that will radically change their life and yours in the process. So, Shannon, as we start this year, this is the critical moment for men and women who already have this kind of uh uh predilection or or or tendency to go, way, we're gonna do something different, all these kinds. This is a critical moment to take those aspirations and to turn them from an aspiration into an action.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Uh and that's the key uh opportunity for Christian leaders uh engaging today. And when we see that happen, oh, what joy fills our soul because we know that God is being glorified and he's being magnified, and men and women are experiencing the greater joy and abundant life that God gives us. And man, what a blessing that is. What a blessing that is.
SPEAKER_00:That's great. Uh personally, yeah, uh, I'll share just a short, quick story that literally did change my life. I'm sitting here at this camera working at the International Leadership Institute because I obeyed God and went on a mission trip. Um, there was a lot of other things that that went along with that, but that was one act of obedience, one part of me um saying yes and getting involved with what God was doing and leading me to do. And now, you know, I'm here and my life has changed. So you never know what that yes will lead to. Um and it's always exciting, it's an adventure. And I think sometimes people forget how much of an adventure it is to follow Jesus. It's exciting, it's fun, you meet new people, um, and it's a joy. So I also encourage you to take that, take that step, say yes, get off the sidelines, jump in what God's doing. And and you may be one of those people that is engaged with your church and doing things. And so just take time to pray and say, God, where else do I need to jump in? Um, are you calling me to more? Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and and take the moment to go, God, where are you moving? And and uh what is my place in it? Uh, you know, one of the greatest gifts uh of the past five years for my life has been getting to know the global church. Uh we're gonna spend an all eternity together, Shannon, and it's gonna be awesome.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, it is.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, and it is such a blessing to experience some of that now. I'm so thankful. I don't have to wait till heaven to meet some of these people. They're here, they're ready. They love us and I get the chance to love them. And that's a beautiful gift. So for Christian leaders out there today that are leading and maybe they're feeling a little weary or a little worn out. Because I know, hey, just because it's New Year doesn't mean you suddenly feel refreshed.
SPEAKER_00:Especially in the church world.
SPEAKER_01:Oh man, yeah, I get so burned out and tired and exhausted. There's so much beauty in gathering with the body and just saying, man, God, you're working over here. And I've got some hard soil, but I see where this seed is born tenfold. And I just want to celebrate and praise you in it. I mean, that's a beautiful thing. And uh it it it nourishes a weary soul. So for the the leaders who are going, man, it's a new year, but it's not a new me. Uh, there's nourishment for a weary soul. Remember, uh, there's a there's a lie that we hear in the West. Uh, there's no rest for the weary. That's the lie, because we know that Jesus says, Come to me all who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest. And so that's just a beautiful reminder, even for uh us at the end of this year, uh, as we sit and record this, uh, that God is so good. Jesus does give rest. Uh, and the the global body is a beautiful gift in the midst of that.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for tuning in in the conversation today as we discussed the discipleship and a billion people being a part of the UVersion Bible app. That's just worth celebrating, it's worth repeating uh because it's incredible that we live in the time that that has happened. And, you know, don't glance over 15,000 increase in Bible sales. Uh, has Amazon asking, what are you doing different? And you we know that it's God pouring his spirit out, he's drawing men and women to himself, and we get to be the ones that disciple and mentor and coach and lead people uh into knowing Jesus and having an abundant relationship with him that's spoken of in his word. So thank you for jumping in the conversation with us. Let us know in the comments if you have any questions or that you've taken a step to jump in, as Daniel was sharing for 2026. Um, we look forward to being with you guys this year on the podcast, and we will see you next time.