ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Explore the transformative journey that is leadership. In each episode, we will dive deep into strategies, stories, insights, and the core values that shape and inspire effective Christian leaders who make an impact - all around the globe. Get ready to unlock your leadership potential.
When leaders are equipped, kingdom impact multiplies. Equipping leaders and spreading the Gospel. Let’s change history together!
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ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Ep. 88 | How to Identify Future Leaders
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In this special best-of and revisted episode of the History Makers Leadership Podcast, host Daniel Drewski returns to a powerful conversation with David Daniels to highlight two essential leadership priorities: identifying future leaders and developing them through the Five C’s of Leadership.
One of the greatest challenges facing today’s Christian leaders is the ability to recognize, develop, and empower the next generation. Without a clear framework for identifying leadership potential and a process for intentional growth, organizations and movements risk stagnation and missed kingdom opportunities.
In this refreshed focus on a past conversation, David Daniels, a seasoned marketplace leader with over 35 years of experience at Chick-fil-A, shares his proven Five C’s framework for identifying and developing emerging leaders. Having overseen hundreds of team members, David brings practical, transferable wisdom that applies across business, ministry, and community leadership contexts.
Whether you are building a business, leading a ministry, or investing in people within your community, this episode offers timeless insights for cultivating a leadership culture marked by intentional development, accountability, and lasting legacy. This revisit will sharpen your ability to spot leadership potential and apply the Five C’s with clarity and purpose.
Join a community of leaders who are ready to change history and make an impact in this world. When you take part in ILI training, you will discover how ILI's Eight Core Values will help you transform your leadership. Discover more at ILITeam.org/discover.
You know how it's hard to figure out uh who those next generation leaders are and really a process for developing or discipling them or uh even kind of uh uh finding them in your team or network? Listen, I'm having a conversation today with David Daniels. Uh David is an incredible leader with uh uh decades of experience leading in the marketplace and leading uh people in general. You're going to love today's conversation as we break down what he's got as five C's for effective uh identification development uh and some foundation for why uh uh and how to find those next generation leaders. I think you're gonna love today's conversation. It's rich, it's full. Uh get your pens, get your paper. Uh it's gonna be a great conversation. Thanks for joining us today on the History Makers Leadership Podcast. David, I'm so thankful to be able to sit down uh across the table from you and to kind of think through uh some elements of leadership. I know you've always been uh such an encourager for me personally and uh just a great example of leadership and uh Christ-like humility in the midst of that. Uh and I'd love to talk a little bit today about really next generation leadership, finding them, developing them, uh, understanding uh maybe some practices from that. I I believe that the most effective Christian leaders are multiplying leaders. They are they are helping to develop, disciple, uh, and and create those kinds of uh movements and of momentum toward kingdom transformation, but it's really hard to know how to do some of that. Um would you mind first just kind of unpack for us what's your context for leadership? Uh, you know, I know you. I have the privilege of living in a city here near you. And um, but the leaders out uh that are listening may not have that same kind of background. Would you kind of fill us in a little? What is your background? What's your context for leadership? Um, and you know, how do you really think about identifying those those next generation leaders?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for the invitation. I really appreciate it. Uh and yes, I've actually worked for a company called Chick-fil-A in Silanta-based uh fast food chain, if you will. We serve uh the world's best chicken sandwich, but we're actually known for people, which really drew me to to Chick-fil-A. And so I have a background in ministry. I thought that I was gonna be a church planner, uh probably a pastor somewhere along the lines, but I really had a passion for business. And so to be able to do both, uh, I really learned the concept early on that your mission field is where your two feet are planted. And so you can have an opportunity to have that impact on not just uh folks that darken the door of a church, but you can have that in the in the context of a public community. So uh I chose to pursue Chick-fil-A. I've been doing this a long time. Started with Chick-fil-A in 87. And I've been an owner operator in our local community here. Uh currently oversee about 350 so staff members fixing open an additional location. Uh, I think in the next two to three years we'll be pushing about 500 folks in my care. And so really take stewardship uh really heavy in these type of roles. I understand that God has put me in a place of leadership to help cultivate the next generation of talent. And so for me, leadership is is more about how do I steward my gifts and what God has called me to do, and less about maybe the outcomes of running a business. Now, I do believe when you run a business that we are called to be faithful stewards. We have to steward what God's given us. And so for me, uh it is restaurants. There are real dollars that transact, there are real customers that come in and eat with us. Uh, and I love that. But Chick-fil-A is more about the platform and is necessarily about my calling. And so, kind of as we get started today, one thing I love to challenge uh new and old leaders, a lot of times we get stuck in this rut of believing that our work is our purpose or that our job is our calling. And it's really just the opposite. You know, for a lot of us, we have to really identify what is my God-given purpose and God-given calling. That's right. And then the platform is where I exercise those gifts. And so that could be at the job that you get paid at. We all live in a in a world today, we have to draw an income. Sure. Bills do come, so we do need to be paid. But I think for leaders early in their journey, and I know we're going to talk about identifying those, but I think it's really important that anybody listen to this, especially if you if you're in a role or leadership yourself, that you're really capitalizing, understanding why are you here? And so, you know, calling and purpose are really God-given. And those are the reasons you consume oxygen. I firmly believe if you're breathing today, God's not done with you. You have a specific purpose and calling to fulfill. And so, just as an example for me, um, early in my career, I got caught up in this whirlwind of success. I thought success was all about, you know, sales and dollars and all those type things. And and through a unique experience that I had in the nation of Haiti, I'm a big believer in missions. Uh, that's why I love ILI. But God really wrecked my world in the nation of Haiti through a unique experience where I went from this idea, what does it look like to be a successful leader? Instead, what does it look like to have a significant impact on the next generation as a leader? And so going back and re-identifying, hey, Chick-fil-A as a business is not my calling. And so, through a series of development opportunities I had, I really have really crafted this idea, like, why am I here?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And so for me, God has put me on this planet to help the next generation of a leader to identify their giftings and their callings, and then equip and align them to go do that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So you'll notice in my statement there, there's no chicken, there's no delicious lemonade, there are no things related to business. It's all about I'm here to help the next generation, identify why God put them here and then give them the tools and resources to go do that.
SPEAKER_00:And so I think you're right. The first step is okay, Lord, uh clarify for self, for the organization that we're leading, what is that purpose calling, uh, what is that firm foundation? Uh, and then even our even our act of being present in a room, being present in a moment, leading with um integrity, leading with deep conviction, all of that is going to begin to elicit from these younger next generation leaders that are in our midst. It's gonna begin to elicit that out of them, uh, a higher sense of calling, a higher sense of purpose. Um, in your experience, is that is that an element of how you begin to identify? I mean, how how do you begin to see those people uh uh naturally, maybe supernaturally gifted in leadership so that you can begin to exercise, pour, encourage, equip them? How do you how do you begin to see that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's a great question. And I think for many of us, uh, to be able to actually solve that would be um magic. I mean, you think about uh we have a leadership crisis in the world today. We see the void of leadership and specifically spiritual leadership, but in the context of just leadership in general, uh, I'll kind of share with you one tactic we use to help identify. Now, when we select talent, we're looking at that person through the lens of where could they land in the organization. Okay. Now, I am in a business where we sell food. And so there's obviously production of food, there's prep, there's cooking, there's selling, there's cleaning, there's all the elements that go into a business. But I think these elements transcend just food. I think when you think about the context, whether that's retail or whether that's church or whether that's ministry-based, uh, I've kind of narrowed it down what I call the five C's. Okay. And so when you look at young talent, what are we really honing in on? And so I'd love to kind of share these, maybe we can break them down just a little bit. So kind of from a high level, the the five elements are does this leader have character, chemistry, competency, care, and commitment? Again, character, okay, chemistry, competency, care, and commitment. And so there's a reason those are written in that order. And so often we're looking for the outputs of someone to go, okay, they're a hard worker, so therefore they're gonna be a great leader. And I would tell you that's not necessarily true.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh but we look to those folks that just have really, really high output, and then we think, oh, that's gonna be the person that's gonna get her done. Uh you look at here in the United States, you think about NFL football, or you think about sports. Uh there are sports athletes that are incredibly gifted with talent, but are really poor in the locker room who get passed over in recruiting. Why? Because of the toxicity they bring to the environment. So uh if you'll allow me, let's let's talk through that. So let's let's start with character. Yeah. You know, it's the person that the that you really, really are. You know, we look for things like integrity. You know, are you really truthful? Are you the person when nobody's really watching you? Like, who are you? Right. Uh we want somebody of strong character. We know this. This is not some rocket science, but the reality is a lot of times we go to fill a leadership void based on the fact out of need. Oh, yeah. We feel compelled to just recruit based on what we see and never really taking time to go, okay, who is this person?
SPEAKER_00:I I want to pause here for a second because this is this is near and dear to my heart. I think in the midst of our leadership crisis that we see globally, we see individuals put in leadership because of charisma or because of some kind of a credential, and they're lacking those Christ-like character traits necessary for uh longevity and transformational impact that we want to see in the world. And so I just I just want to emphasize that because I think that's a unique spot in this whole journey that you've described that that ILI really is called to help lean in and provide a framework for not only defining some structure for what that character means, uh, but also so that there's a shared language among a team to know how do I hold people accountable to that? How if I don't know how that character is defined, uh, then my team can't hold me accountable for how that character is defined. Um, and in a lot of places, that's that's one of the struggles you see in the larger body. So uh I just I just wanted to emphasize that because I believe so deeply that that's where we have um an element, a key element to that leadership crisis. So we got a lot of really charismatic people can can move uh move an audience, move a crowd, get some kind of reaction, even get momentum in a given direction, but they're lacking the longevity of Christ-like character that that we really see in the most successful uh biblical examples, right?
SPEAKER_01:I get this question. So, where do you start? What do you mean by character? And I think it goes back to what are the core values of your organization? Like as an organization, you have to really have a strong identity on who you are. And then you start selecting talent around that. So, what do you say is important? And here's one of the things you know, core values are not something you pin on a wall. A lot of times, like, oh, core values are over here, just go read those. And that's important. You want visual aids, but really does the team ingest and then can they replicate these values? And so when you're selecting talent and you talk about character, if we say integrity is a core value, well, do we have patterns of integrity though? That's right. If we say servant leadership, which is a core value in my organization, well, do they really exposit the whole idea of I'm serving others and it's not just when the boss is watching? And you have to determine what those are. There are basic character traits we want hard working, show up on time. We can all agree on the basics, but then you start getting in the nuances of what really makes your organization special, right, and what sets you apart. And then I I use this filter a lot, Daniel, is this the person that's going to be in leadership. And when I bring a new leader on, we talk about you're not just representing a brand, you're representing me.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_01:And so you're a torch carrier, you're a you know, you're the bearer of this name. So to me, if you can't get character right, none of the others matter. That's right. Because you like you've already said, charisma dies out.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh and you may be, you know, just the hardest worker, and that's great. But man, I'm telling you, like, people will follow a person of strong character over time. And that character may be somebody that's very, very quiet. Uh I even think to the inside of this organization, you've got all personality types that are there. Uh but some of your quieter leaders carry such a strong presence because the character carries them. And so character will carry you through struggles, crisis, uh, and the things that your organization really, really struggles with. So foundationally, get the character piece right. And I tell you, the other four really tend to fall in place because the person that you're using, you're gonna select for this opportunity really does that well.
SPEAKER_00:Man, that's incredible. Uh, so we're gonna begin with that element of saying, okay, next generation leader, who's got those core character traits? Again, there's there's permission to play character traits that are just foundational, uh, of course, right? Uh, but then there's character traits that align with the culture of the organization that you've been called to lead. Um, and you're gonna be you're gonna be kind of looking to identify who who on the team has those. Now, if I'm just hiring those people, then everybody on my team has those character traits. So how do I start to identify maybe with these with these other four? Um, with with chemistry or with uh uh I'm trying to remember all of them here, but how do I begin to identify that next leader in the midst of some of those things? Is that is that how you filter some of that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so uh again, I know we're kind of hovering on the 30,000 foot view here. Sure. So when you think about a leader, is this leader what is the role, responsibility, accountability look like? Like what is the puzzle piece they're gonna fill? What's the problem they're gonna solve?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_01:Uh so I I know that is typically a filter, but if we say, okay, in general leadership terms, what does this look like? If the person has strong character, that means they individually embody these values. You know, I challenge especially a lot of my senior leadership. What are your personal core values? It it's really amazing to me how often most leaders don't have a set of core values for themselves.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:They're like, oh, I work for such and such company, and this is what we believe in. Here's our mantra, here's our so, but I think once you solve that problem, you've got the individual side taken care of, which also correlates with what we talk about, how we develop leaders. The first step of developing leaders is you have to lead self well. And so, and if we get some time, we can talk through that. But you know, once you get the character piece right, then it goes to how well do we work with other people, which is chemistry.
SPEAKER_02:There you go.
SPEAKER_01:And so, chemistry, I like to say, is can you play nice in the sandbox? I mean, really, at the end of the day, we we all know people that like maybe they have strong character, but man, they're just impossible to work with.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And that's toxic to a culture as well. That's no culture is stagnant. I mean, you think about having a static culture, it'd be great if it was. You set your culture, you walk away, everything's good. The problem is in culture, you're dealing with people.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And anywhere there's people is messy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, and and as a leader, that's the higher calling here. Yeah. Because we know we know leadership is dealing with people, management is dealing with process. So if we if we delineate those two, as a leader, you're called to work with people. That's right. And so chemistry is so important because that leader now has to go from leading themselves well to actually leading a team, whether that's a team of one or a team of 50.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, and that's why that transcends, that concept transcends not just working in a restaurant or a church or in a nonprofit. You can actually take the concept and say, okay, you know, what behaviors do we identify in this leader when it comes to interacting with other people?
SPEAKER_00:So I have a real practical, you know, as I'm looking for next generation leaders, um, okay, am I answering those questions, right? Uh we live in a context and an age where uh I can have lots of views, but not really feel seen, right? Um, and so, okay, how do I help uh um sincerely slow down enough, hear, listen, uh, make them be seen, feel seen, feel heard, um, the value of that in their long-term development and the the relational buy-in that that that that elicits, right? Because if I'm listening, they're more likely to listen, uh, particularly when there's a a growth or or you know development conversation that that I want to have with that leader later. And so I I think those are are just so important. And yeah, we live in a, I think, uh a context where, gosh, man, people, we we've got a lot of negative self-speak internally, and the enemy we know is out to kill, steal, and destroy. And so for Christian leaders, um, well, you know, maybe maybe it's even you listening, you might need to be reminded uh that, man, God uh has called you to this purpose and there's value in who you are and what you are doing and what you're called to. But as we look at those leaders around us, those leaders that we're trying to develop, yeah, we we got to remind them that we believe in them. Um and I think key moments to that include in the midst of failure and in the midst of uh struggle or whatever. Um and I love that that key phrase of belonging, because where do I fit is another way of kind of thinking about that. How do I fit in the midst of this? Um, because if you do have a younger leader who's growing and who has capacity, et cetera, and and you're not helping them find that fit, they'll start to feel restless. They'll go, man, I I want to, I, you know, I see how this could go or this could go. I want to make a difference, but I I'm I'm not finding that that place where I can really make an impact. And that's where you start having leaders that that leak out, uh, and and now all of a sudden you've lost that opportunity to continue to disciple them and help generate that next generation leadership pipeline that that that you know, again, real systematically you're looking for uh and relationally, you know, you want to develop.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah, we know this to be true that cared for people care for people. And so when you truly care about your team, and again, that's that chemistry piece. In other words, you don't avoid hard conversations. Yeah. You you steer into hard conversations, you address problems when they arise, you affirm when things go well. That's right. You know, the the great leaders know how to handle themselves in those environments. Um, confrontation is not negative. Yeah, confrontation is confrontation.
SPEAKER_02:That's right.
SPEAKER_01:You know, it can be led to affirmation, but the most loving thing you can do in an organization is to be honest and truthful with your people, and then that helps to maintain that chemistry. That's right. And so that's why conversations, connections, and there's so much that goes into that. I don't know for our time's sake today, I can't take a deep, deep dive into that. But leader, let me encourage you, never skate past that. Uh, you have such a unique opportunity to speak life into people, and you have so much control over culture. Like, don't let things just go. Like, step in. Yeah, chemistry matters. You've got the whole character piece of this leader, now you're doing the chemistry piece, um, which really builds us to the bridge of the next one here. Yeah, jump into competency. That's right. And that's uh that's just simply can they do the work?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know, a lot of times we have charismatic leaders, and so that's why I'm a big proponent in your organization. Like, do you have clearly defined roles? Like when you're identifying somebody that's going to lead somewhere, do they know what the role is? Right. So it's like having a chessboard. Each chess piece moves a different direction. The back row are your leadership positions, right? Uh, and if you've ever played chess, it's each piece has a specific role. If it's a rook or a bishop or a queen, it's important to understand how those move. And you may have a leader sitting on the bench who's ready, but the role you're selecting for is not because competency is not there. There you go. You know, I don't necessarily need somebody that's gifted in hospitality back there cooking chicken. Sure. Uh, but if I don't have a role vacant in the moment, I continue to pour into that leader. I think so often we say we can teach competencies, and I would actually tell you that's true. Okay. Uh If you have strong character and you have great chemistry. But listen, when you put somebody in a field of their strong competencies, there's a confidence that comes with that leader that they can accomplish whatever.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So all of us have hardwired DNA to do certain things.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_01:Uh now I do believe God equips. You know, it's funny. When I first got started as a leader, the thought of standing in front of people to speak would make me physically sick.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_01:And it's been unique to see how God has really transformed in my life. So I say that to encourage the leader. There is a journey you go on on competency. That's why you have to own your own development. You know, self-development is not organic. You have to get after that. That's right. The books you read, the podcasts you listen to, the people that you allow to influence your lives. You've heard it says, show me your friends, I'll show you your future. All those things bleed into competencies. That's right. You have the responsibility to grow as a leader. You know, what are you doing today to be better tomorrow? Uh you've heard the old saying, you know, when's the best time to plant a tree? It was 50 years ago. Right. When's the next test best time to plant a tree? It's today. And so when it comes to competencies, there are obviously soft skills and hard skills. Yep. Uh, but when it comes to development, self-development, you have to own that. Yeah. Like and take it very seriously because if you're not growing, you're going backwards. We're not stagnant.
SPEAKER_00:Right. I think that's such an important message because I I have worked with leaders in the past where I've been blessed. They they've poured into me, right? They've helped me on that competency side, sharing books, sharing resources, helping to um shorten the length of time needed to grow in competency by pointing me to the best resources along the way, right? Helping to kind of cut that, yeah. I don't want to say shortcut it, but but cut that in half rather than me just kind of aimlessly grabbing at the next thing to try and self-develop. I don't even know some of my own failures. Like I'm blind to what I'm blind to. But these were some leaders that really poured into my life and helped me to see, hey, let me share this book with you. I just finished this. This was really helpful for me in this way. I think it'd be good for you in this way. And so as as we talk about and think through like what does that look like for a younger leader, it's those kinds of assets, it's those kinds of resources that we can pour into them.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love that. I'll I'll interject this here. And I'm like you, I'm an ever-growing leader and just continually depositing. And I heard a phrase this last week that I thought was just really impactful. That a single point of incompetency does not equate inadequacy. A single point of incompetency, meaning there's something you're not good at. And in a lot of cultures today, if you if we view somebody as not good at something, we just write them off. Yeah. But how powerful a statement is it's a single point of incompetency, meaning, okay, we we judge people by certain criteria, but that does not mean inadequacy. So I I I'm a people person uh and I love building systems. I don't like getting in the weeds.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:I don't like to to do the nitty-gritty day-to-day. Uh I can. I have an awareness. But you know, you think about it, whatever your your perceived incompetency might be, or you have somebody in your team that has an incompetency, don't equate that to an adequacy. Uh it may be a training point.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It may be a a desire that they just don't have. Yeah. But be very careful and cautious because as leaders, our our words carry so much weight.
SPEAKER_00:So man, that's that's so good. And and I it's such an important reminder because I think that is the kind of that that element, that C, that competency, is is an element that is the natural point around which next generation leadership decisions are being made, right? People look and go, well, I wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't have done that, I wouldn't have done that, because I've got 30 years of experience doing it. Uh and and we, you know, we expect that uh from them, not realizing there's there there are those those elements. And it isn't a point of inadequacy, it's it's just a point of needed development, right? I don't look at my nine-year-old and expect him to be able to know, do, and act like my 13-year-old. Uh, I recognize, oh, there's there's things that you're just not there yet. Yeah. Uh, and that's okay. Uh, but I I need you to get there, so I'm gonna I'm gonna help you, son, uh, to develop those skills.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'll I'll kind of close this point with this. Sure, yeah. Um, because I love what you just said about 30 years of experience and and I can relate to that. But let me encourage you, leader, no matter where you're in your journey, uh, you may have done this for 30 years, 50 years, 13 months. Never stop being a student. Never stop. Like when Abraham Lincoln once said this, he said, when you stop learning, you die. And guys, I'm telling you, stay the student. Amen. Like always be a student, uh, which leads us to the fourth seed, which is care.
SPEAKER_00:Care.
SPEAKER_01:And and it's it's interesting. You think that oh such a such a spongy, kind of sticky word, care. Yeah. But the question comes, do you care? And I think a lot of times, especially young leaders, they want an opportunity because of a title.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:They're pursuing the opportunity because of pay. And the heart behind it is not anything more than that. What I want in a key leader is do you genuinely care about what's important in this organization? Do you care about our mission?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Do you care about vision? Do you care about people? We're a people-centric company. Sure. Um, you may be a product-centric company, whatever that may be, but do you have a just an extraordinarily high level of care for what's going on to where it drives behaviorally? Uh, you know, we think about really caring about something. You know, we can think about relationships, those that are married. Do you care about your spouse? Well, of course you care about your spouse. Of course. Well, how much do you care about your spouse? Are you intuitive to the things that need to be taken care of? Like when maybe she or he's not feeling well? Are you willing to jump in and help with household chores like doing laundry and dishes?
SPEAKER_02:That's right.
SPEAKER_01:Are you being willing to change your schedule in order to accommodate things that it may be going on in the family? Those are tangible things we we recognize in care at the house. Right. But how do you translate that into work? And it's no different. It's really this idea am I willing to set myself aside for the needs of the organization or the people in this organization? And people struggle with care because it requires you to set you aside. Isn't that a biblical concept, though? We learned that in Philippians. Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, who chose to take on the form, not just a servant, but a bondservant. That's right. You know, we we have this idea when we're taught in Matthew 5, you know, that if you're compelled to go one mile, voluntarily with a cheerful heart, is what one translation says. Not just, okay, I'm gonna go the second mile because I was told to. What Jesus was saying in that moment was the Roman uh soldiers in that day would carry these packs that weighed about 110 pounds, and the Jewish people knew exactly how many steps it took to accomplish one mile. They knew exactly. And they have these whitewash markers, and we'll get into a lot of the culture of the day, but it's fascinating to study because a Jewish man would know exactly to the step how many steps were required to do that. That's right. So the concept of second mile behavior means, and Jesus said this, and boy, it pricked their heart so much. They're like, How dare you tell us these Romans that hate us and treat us like this and they lord over us and he's going after their heart? So when you truly have a heart that cares, it's the idea with a willing and cheerful heart say, you know what, I'm gonna go a second mile.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Do we have leaders that have second mile attributes and behaviors in their heart?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Are we looking for those moments to deeply care, not just about people and process, the company? Do they love what we do? Because again, there are going to be days that you don't feel like getting out of bed.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, but when you truly, truly care, those attributes manifest in a young leader, an old leader. Yeah. We want people to care.
SPEAKER_00:Is that is that where you find that sense of, you know, we want owner, we want leaders to to have an ownership mentality, not not in a negative sense of the word, but a a personal investment. A again, like I, you know, um I believe in this. I I own this, like I I care about this. Is that where you tend to find that that overlap there, where it's not just a J O B, right? It's not just some job, but it's it's something that you know I I have a vested interest in. Um, or or do you see that more in the uh because I could also envision it, right? I could also envision in the uh uh uh chemistry side where it's no, I I care about this team, and because I care about these people, I care about our shared, our shared activity, right? I mean, how do you I guess I'm using the word care, so maybe, maybe it all comes back to care, but is that is that the element that you see uh uh as being kind of your mental filter for figuring out, hey, this upcoming leader, uh, they they have the the desire, the chops, the the orientation to to take a sense of ownership and responsibility to accomplish this task.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. An ownership mindset is somewhat a requirement as a leader.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It really has to be. And so, you know, and again, I recognize the word care can feel squishy, especially in some context. So let me just share briefly how I look at care. Okay. When we break down the word care, I'm an acronym guy because I think it's just easier to remember things like this. But a leader that had has true characteristics of caring will do the four attributes of care. So C being, hey, I'm fighting for great culture.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:So C is culture. Like if you truly care, culture's keen.
SPEAKER_02:There you go.
SPEAKER_01:And so we're gonna fight really, really hard for culture. The A is this idea of anticipation, anticipating needs. Okay. Are you are you constantly having this mindset of looking around to where can I jump in today, not just for work, but the hand on the shoulder, recognizing somebody, maybe having an off day, intuitive to the needs that are going around us? R is the relationship piece. We know relationships, but I like to say it this way it's really uh authentic relationships. What does that mean? It means like you're always intuitive of what's going around around you, so that relationships are that important. If if you say relationships are important, but your behavior doesn't show that, uh, if you have an apathetic approach to people, uh, apathy just kills that. And so uh relationships, and that's a whole teaching in and of itself, right there. But then the E in cares, there's it's to me, it's the secret sauce of a great leader. If you really get this, it's empathy. The power of empathy. We know it's different than sympathy. Yeah, empathy is the ability to really truly put yourself in the shoes of someone else, to really feel what they feel, to really connect with where they connect, and to say, I am in this with you. When you truly care with somebody, you actually be with them and put yourself in there with you. And that is sacrificial. Yeah, you know, that's where we get the model of servant leadership. I mean, we understand servant leadership, and again, also a very broad big teaching, and we obviously teach that here at ILI, servant leadership, but you can't be a servant leader and not truly care.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So again, culture, you know, are we anticipating needs? Are we looking for those opportunities to connect? Are we really connecting with authentic relationships? And at the end of the day, are we really bought into the concept of empathy? So leaders that care, they really, really get this.
SPEAKER_00:Amen. So I I've I've now seen how I can I can kind of mentally make that filter. I've got, I've got this, this understanding of of where competency sits. I've got this understanding of where caring sits. Uh, what's the last C and and what are some kind of mental filters that can help me uh see that or or help develop that in a next generation leader?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So the last C is the word commitment. Commitment. And really what we're looking for is are you are you really bought in to actually have the tenacity or the grit to follow through with what needs to get done? Okay. So there's this idea and this tension that so many people wrestle with, and it's the tension of commitment versus convenience. You know, convenience says, uh, I can't because I've got this, this, and this. Commitment is when you follow through with what you said you were gonna do when the feeling when you said it is gone. Think about that a minute. So a lot of times I'll commit to something and the energy's high and the emotion's high and we're bought in, but then a better opportunity comes. Hey, I'm supposed to work tonight, but I got tickets to go to the Braves game.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, or I've got this opportunity that came up, but I made this commitment. You know, we we understand in the context of marriage, you know, you commit, it's a lifetime commitment. You know, we we just we work through things, we work hard at relationships, but oftentimes in young leaders, especially, yeah, commitment's a hard one. There's a fear of commitment. Yeah. And so when you work through commitment, it's the idea, and I love the word tenacity, yeah, it's just to stick to it, grind it out, work. You know, when things get hard, I'm still committed to this, you know, it's it's the discipline to see things through. Um and I I use that one last because, you know, it's kind of the bookend of going, okay, I kind of work through this, but you know, when you lay out an expectation, it's like if you got a project deadline, yeah, and the deadline's tomorrow, but you're like, I gotta be home at five for spaghetti dinner with the family. Well, I'm all about family. Yeah, like you need to be there, but there's a tension here of commitment. That's right. And so understanding that you have a pendulum swing here to go on, I'm gonna follow through with my commitment. Now, do not we we teach family priority. Oh, yeah, oh yeah. We teach family priority. Never sacrifice your family on the altar of success. I'll make sure I say that loud and clear. But there are times commitments kind of transcend current moments, yeah. And we have to recognize where those are. So, as leaders, when you make a commitment, your word is binding. Yes, follow through uh even when you don't feel like it. You know, if you've got to be somewhere, and it's just today we're recording here in Carrollton, Georgia, and it is a miserably rainy, awful day outside.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, buddy.
SPEAKER_01:And it's one of those days that we like to say you like to pull the covers back up over your head, tuck yourself back in bed, turn the air conditioner down, and sleep. Yep. Uh but we have commitments we've made. That's right. And commitments supersede our feelings. Amen. Because feelings are fickle and they will drive behavior if we're not uh not careful. You know, emotions seep into our day-to-day work lives, but we have to build the barriers and disciplines around that. And that's where commitment steps in.
SPEAKER_00:Man, I I it reminds me, you know, one of the last sessions that we teach with ILI is we teach a session called Finishing Well. We share about the statistic that 70% of leaders won't finish well, and we share a really clear, uh, just compelling story of John Stephen Akwari. And he was sent by his nation, uh, it's an African leader who was sent to the Olympics to run in a race. Uh, in the midst of that race, and it was a long race, right? Uh, I don't know, I don't know the distances, but it was a long one. Um, something happened such that he blew out his knee. I mean, it was bloody, it was, it was tore up, uh, he had fallen, and uh he had to go to receive medical care rather than completing the race at the moment. Um, well, the race was over, the stands had cleared. Uh, there was literally one um media personality still around the track who caught a photo of him going back to where he had fallen and he ran until he finished the race. Uh and he was asked about why. Everything's over. The stands are empty, like everything's done, John. Why on earth would you go through that agonizing completion of this race? It meant nothing. And he said the very clear statement my nation didn't send me here to start a race. They sent me here to finish the race. And I think that's where I hear the echo of Paul. We're here to finish a race that God has called us to. Um, and as faithful Christian leaders, especially as we're looking for that next generation of faithful Christian leaders, we've got to see and identify and help disciple leaders who have deep commitment, follow through tenacity, as you said, um, so that they can discern uh, hey, how do I, how do I see those moments that transcend or those, those, those initiatives that transcend this moment? And I go, wait a second, I've got to push through to get this to the finish line. Uh, because that's that's what I was that's what I was put here to do. It was to finish a race, not just kind of get something going. Uh, and so such an important, uh, important message. Well, any kind of closing thought for a leader who's looking for a next generation leader trying to figure out some steps. Uh, any any final thoughts or closing words for those listening?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think when you think about leadership, you we've got a five-step filter that you can use as leadership. And I I really believe um it's the most important decision you make.
SPEAKER_00:Amen.
SPEAKER_01:And when you filter through uh, you know, whether it's Peter Drucker or some of these authors of leadership, you know, who does what by when is the most important decision we make as a leader. The first word in that sentence is who. And so as a leader, that is the most important decision you make in your organization. And so a lot of times we feel this pressure to fill quickly. And I get that. Like if you got a void and it's got to be filled quickly, hopefully you're continuing the idea we call building the leadership bench. And that's how you stay ready so you don't have to get ready.
SPEAKER_02:There you go.
SPEAKER_01:And as leaders, I really encourage you like who is on the bench and how often are you willing to really reach down into your organization and mentor? The problem a lot of times is we wait until we need a leader to develop a leader. That's right. And that doesn't work. Right. And so you have to have a development mindset. And mindset in itself is a huge teaching, but when we really place high value on people, we want to invest. That's right. And so I want to just encourage you as leaders, you know, as you think about selecting and developing talent and leadership across your organization, I think everyone has the ability to be invested in at some capacity. So I'll start with that. Not everybody will be a leader, but invest in everyone in your organization. That's called stewardship. If they're a part of your team, you saw something in them that's of value, that doesn't mean they have to be a leader. Second thing is build the leadership bench. And multiplication, we understand this at ILI, but it's the ability to have leaders create other leaders. There's not success because you have arrived as a leader. That's called legacy. There you go. Legacy leadership lives on long past me. You know, I don't when I die one day, Daniel, the successes I've had in life will die with me. Uh, and I will be forgotten except for the intentional investment I made in other people.
SPEAKER_02:There you go.
SPEAKER_01:Legacy and stewardship live on in the lives that we get to steward every day. So value those relationships, value those inputs. And will it get hard? Yes. Are you gonna get tired? Yes. Are there frustrating days? Yes. Do people get messy and frustrating? Yes. But one day, as Dana's already said, that well done, thou good and faithful servant. I want those words because I intentionally took time to invest in people. And so that'd be the challenge I'd give here is kind of go forth and do the work. Amen. Uh and and don't get discouraged because there will be moments. Yeah. And we live in a fallen, broken world. And but the reality is uh, and we know this crisis overcome the world. That's right. And we are the overcomers in this world to do that.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. We're the overcomers, we're the ones that carry that good news. That's right. That hope uh that we can all look to. So, leaders, I just want to invite you. Listen, if this has been helpful to you, uh, I know it has, because I know I've been sitting here just going, man, there's so many good pieces of wisdom and information. I want to encourage you, the International Leadership Institute exists so that leaders will be equipped and the gospel will accelerate to the ends of the earth. We want to see effective believers uh in the harvest field where God has called them, where they're on mission, where their feet are planted. Uh, you can find some important. Incredible resources at ILITe.org. We are so thankful you joined us here. If this was of service to you, share with some friends, like, subscribe, do all of those things because it helps others to find meaningful resources that help to grow, develop, disciple leaders of Christ like character with values that undergird and really form the foundation of effective Christian leadership all around the world. Thanks for joining us today.