ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Explore the transformative journey that is leadership. In each episode, we will dive deep into strategies, stories, insights, and the core values that shape and inspire effective Christian leaders who make an impact - all around the globe. Get ready to unlock your leadership potential.
When leaders are equipped, kingdom impact multiplies. Equipping leaders and spreading the Gospel. Let’s change history together!
This podcast is brought to you by the International Leadership Institute.
ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Ep. 87 | Leadership Through Surrender
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
What if real transformation begins not with better plans, but with a renewed mind? In this episode, Rob from InLight Consulting invites leaders into a deeper conversation about faith, surrender, and leading through seasons of change when clarity feels just out of reach.
Grounded in Romans 12:2, this discussion explores how true transformation happens when our thinking is reshaped by the Holy Spirit rather than driven solely by logic, strategy, or control. Rob contrasts traditional corporate change management with kingdom transformation, offering insight into why God often leads us beyond what our current mindset can fully understand. You will also hear a powerful reflection on Psalm 37, reframing delight as surrender and trust, and showing how commitment to God’s way brings clarity and peace over time.
This episode speaks directly to leaders facing transition, uncertainty, or the tension between what they know in their head and what they sense in their heart. Whether you lead in business, ministry, or everyday life, this conversation will encourage you to release control, lean into faith, and discover how God brings purpose to seasons that feel unfinished.
Tune in to gain insights on leading with faith, courage, and spiritual clarity when the path forward is still unfolding.
Join a community of leaders who are ready to change history and make an impact in this world. When you take part in ILI training, you will discover how ILI's Eight Core Values will help you transform your leadership. Discover more at ILITeam.org/discover.
One of the things uh I love about getting to spend some time with Rob recently is not only would you get to hear uh his incredible story, but now I want to walk through with you some of the practical things that we can do in our own life and leadership to lead in change and transition, to um understand a little bit more about this idea of our heart and our head and where those things intersect and where God is is really renewing our thoughts and giving us the desires of our heart. Uh we'll get a chance to sit down and think through and talk through so many uh just incredible things that God is showing Rob and uh uh uh his life and in his leadership. I think today's episode you're gonna walk away with some uh great deep thoughts that aren't just intellectually reflective, but are emotionally and spiritually reflective as well. Uh and some practical ways that you can grow in your own life and leadership. Uh excited again to be joined by Rob Streetman today. Um what are some of the the the top pieces of of just advice or or or thought or impact that you would offer to a to a leader that's that's leading in those contexts?
SPEAKER_01:Oh wow. Um okay, so a a couple of transformation principles. Yeah. Okay. What one one that applies is that um we're we're transformed, we know from Romans 12.2, that we're transformed by the renewing of our minds.
SPEAKER_03:Amen.
SPEAKER_01:And and so and this by the Holy Spirit. Okay, but what that means is is that it and we know from 2 Corinthians, you know, 3.18 that that there's a leveling up in transformation. We're being transformed from glory to glory into the very same image. So there's a there's a there's a uh an increase. We're we're going to a new level. And so one of the things that's important is to recognize that if if much of my transformation is about the way I think, then I should know that I'm not gonna think now like I'll think then. There's there's some thinking that I don't have right now. Okay. And and so I I've got to um be careful. Um one of the things that the the the way that we the way that we um we w walk with leaders um through transformation is we encourage them to discover the desire of their heart. Um and you know, we we have a desire in the heart for everything that God commands us to do. So we all share a lot of desire, right? So um, but many times God will give um a leader a specific desire. And again, they may be general, like help the help the poor or, you know, widows or orphans or go do mission trips, whatever it, whatever it might be. But the one of the challenges is is we quickly, as as I did, you know, when the when my heart said, you know, help Christian leaders find joyful, spirit-filled ministry, I assumed it was working with pastors. And so I went and joined a ministry that was working with pastors. Yeah, yeah. And to discover that wasn't what it was. So I was be I was being presumptuous, is basically what we're saying. And so part of the um part of the challenge in the in the process, I'm gonna get back to your question, but part of the challenge in the process is um uh is again leading with your heart and not with your head. Um it the the one of the differences between change theory in the in the corporate world and transformation in the kingdom is you know, in the corporate world, when when we were trying to get uh the business units to replace their technology, I mean, we could give them plans, right? We have a plan for getting you there, and we have contingency plans and we have bailout plans, and we had, you know, we we just plan to death um because in the end they were having to trust us to get them there. Yeah. Well, in the kingdom, um we don't get to have the plan. I mean, because what would what would the faith be in that, right? That's a big part of the process of transformation. I mean, there's a lot, God works stuff out of us, you know, like you know, when I get to the other side, part of me being more like Christ is being less judgmental or being less impatient, right? But there's also some working in that happens, and mostly that's faith. Yeah. And and so And if I can just throw this in there real quick.
SPEAKER_03:I also think it's important to note it's it it's a change that He's bringing through us, not a change that we necessarily are in control of. And that's a difference, right? Like that when you're in change in the institution, right, at the enterprise level, like you're bringing the change. You're you're the initiator of the change. You you you you set the goals and objectives for what that change should produce and and all those kinds of things. The the scripture talks about the the kingdom of heaven and and it's something that he's bringing, that Christ initiated and and the body of Christ is is uh uh being used by him to bring to fulfillment. Um and uh I I say that just to note, I think sometimes as leaders we can think we're leading that when really we're we're joining in what God is doing. Yeah, and we've gotta we've gotta see that differentiation as we're trying to bring about that kind of transfer as we're participating in the transformation that God is bringing about.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Uh yeah, and and that that that is um and of course that's biblical. I mean that's that's that's uh very easy to um to support. Okay, so we're we're um Ephesians 2, 8 through 10, you know, we're we're we're saved by by grace through faith. Uh we all we all know that. Well, there's a reason for that. For you are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, um, that were created for you before time began for you to walk in them. Now, the many of the translations say for you to do them. And and and that and that gives the wrong impression that the word there, the the Greek word there is the Greek word for walk. And it's just a little subtle thing, but we we do. I mean, I you know, we think I've got to do this thing now. Yeah, right. And and so I'm gonna figure out a plan for this thing, and I'm gonna, you know, execute, I'm gonna figure some people out there are gonna join me, and I'm gonna do all that. So we have this we have this work uh to walk in, this good work, good work to walk in. And then we have Matthew 5.16, let your light so shine before men that they see your good work and glorify your father in heaven. Amen. So who's doing the work? You know, God God's not a thief. If I'm doing the work, he's not gonna steal the glory from me. So if I want, and and this is, you know, this is kind of when you think about it an enough, I mean, this has like been my my heart for um for two decades now, is I want to see God's glory. And so one of the reasons why I minister to leaders is for them to walk in the good work that God's doing. Amen. So and and then you, you know, you get to see some pretty incredible things, right? And and so we we just, you know, it's just a little saying, um, you know, uh good work is God's work. You know, so um so you're yeah, so you're the the point about um it's not it's not in our um it's not in our strength. I mean we know all these things, right? It's not in it's not in our strength. But we we we say that or we hear that and and it almost is like a cliche. You know, it just kind of goes past us. And and and w you know, w when you think about it, um, if if you do it out of your own strength, um, then you're gonna miss a lot. And you may miss him. You know, you may miss him in the in the work. I mean, I've had that happen too. I've had God put this was before um I started, before I had any notion of this, you know, but God gives, you know, put a burden in my heart for something. And and I get in my mind, okay, this is how that's gonna work, and I'm gonna go find some land and I'm gonna build some, you know, some houses for, you know, troubled teens to live in, and and you know, I just got a board in mind, and I, you know, I approach somebody, be on the board, and they're like, well, no, I don't have time to be on your board, but I'm on the board of this other ministry that's doing troubled teen stuff. You know, they'd love for you to be on there, and I'm like, I can't do that. I got this other thing. Um and then I find out, you know, it it that's what it was for. But I presumed, you know, I presumed that I had to build this thing. And it it it's just uh I mean, we could go in so many directions here.
SPEAKER_03:Counsel people in the midst of that. Because I I I do see that a lot. I think entrepreneurs uh in the body of Christ are such an incredibly valuable resource and tool. Uh, and they're built in a beautiful way by God to accomplish uh the creation and the building of things. Um and and with that, sometimes end up building something that's totally parallel to something else. And you go, hey guys, yeah, you know, did we need a 37th church over in this in this same street?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Uh even though, yeah, financially we could sustain it here, but but do but do we need that? Or or do we need a church in that country that only has one church or zero church?
SPEAKER_00:Exactly.
SPEAKER_03:Um, you know, uh or or like you just said, hey, we've got this ministry for for troubled teens. Uh I feel this call to go and start this ministry, but there is one right here today.
SPEAKER_00:There's one right that's doing a thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And and maybe that's actually the I guess I and I have no idea what God would have done if I had if I had taken that step and gone and just sat on that ministry, you know, on that board and worked with them, that actually might have been the thing that would have led to the thing that I I thought I was supposed to be doing. Yeah. You know, and and so I I mean the the reason I'm hesitating is is we always I always want to say things with with with the passion that should be behind them, you know, because because we just say things and and I guess what I want to say is what I'm fixing to say, think about it for a while. It's because we we don't do things his way. He ha he has a way for everything. And and we know from Isaiah 55 that his ways are higher than ours, his thinking is higher higher than I ours, you know, and and and uh you know, so I guess one way of thinking about it, I see if I can put this into words. I hadn't really used this analogy before, but if if I'm a if I'm a business owner and you know, I've got the opportunity to do something new, you know, to go into a new region or to start a new company or or um and and somebody that wants to invest in that comes to me, somebody that has been successful, somebody that has resources that I can't imagine comes to me and says, I'd like to spend time with you to help you learn, to help you understand, to help you prepare for this business that you want to do. You know, and and and I'll I'll I'll meet with you every day. I'll meet with you every day at you know, eight o'clock, just pick, you know, seven o'clock, six o'clock, you know. The first thing that we're gonna do is we're gonna block out that time on our calendar. And and nothing's going to get that time. There's not going to be double booking in that time. And and I'm probably going to put, you know, maybe 30 minutes on the front end of it to make sure I'm not late. And I may put 30 minutes on the back end of it in case the the guy has more to say. Yeah. And and I mean that's that's a real thing. That's a real thing. And and and I think part of it, you know, is probably that um bec because we haven't practiced listening enough, uh particularly leaders, you know, we're we're to, you know, I had a I don't know why this popped into my head, but when I was climbing the ladder at Sun Trust, uh my my mentor there, my business mentor, you know, he said, you know, he we were in a meeting together and and I, you know, I didn't have anything to say, so I didn't say anything. But we came out of the meeting, he says, Rob, you you've always got to have something to say in these meetings. Because people aren't gonna know you're there if you don't talk. And, you know, that's just the counter, that's just just the opposite. It's just the opposite. We know that it says be be quick to listen, slow to speak, you know, and and that's a real thing. That's a real principle that produces, you know, and so because we we don't practice that, we don't experience, you know, the result of it. And and so that's why we have this word discipline, you know. And and it is it's a real discipline to um to just sit and and to be quiet. I'm gonna uh uh y'all can cut this out if you want to, but I'm gonna I'll throw this in. So this is one of, this is this was this is a surprise. This is one of the, you know, just being disciplined um can do some things that you just never expect. So I um I had a season in my life, this wasn't that long ago, really, um five, ten years ago, uh, where, you know, I just really wanted to get serious about my prayer life. And I wanted to hear. Probably John Brown, it's probably his influence. You know, you you you know, he I was learning, you need to you need to hear what God said, and I wanted to know God's voice. And so I got serious about, you know, just sitting quietly. And so I'm sitting quietly, but I have uh, you know, a hundred thoughts coming at me, you know, and they just they're just uh unending, you know, it's like a like a wave after wave, just thoughts, you know, and and I'm I'm sitting there trying to push them out of the way. You know, that doesn't belong. I'm trying to, I'm trying to hear from God. I don't want to, I don't want to think about Matthew, I don't want to think about work, you know. And and then I just, you know, just stumbled across this little piece of a verse that said, take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. And so I started doing that. A thought would come, like a thought about Matthew would come, you know, and I'm I'm like, okay, I got this thought about Matthew, Lord, what do you want me to do with it? And and sometimes he would say, put it away. And so what am I doing? I'm putting it away in his authority. Um, but sometimes he'd say, I want to talk to you about that. And so we'd have a conversation about Matthew. And and this went on, you know, for a few months, and all of a sudden I realized three, three things, I hope I can remember all three, three things happened. One, um, I was learning God's voice. I was learning to hear what God had to say about things and how he spoke through me. The second thing that happened is um the thoughts stopped coming as rapidly as they used to. The Holy Spirit was renewing my mind. Something was going on in my mind that was keeping those thoughts from interjecting themselves. And then the the third thing uh was really the the biggest surprise is what I was practicing in my in the quiet of my you know my office at home became my nature out in the chaotic world. Things just started slowing down. I I I started being more you know aware of what was going on. And and you know, I'm I'm I'm being honest. Now, you know, you can't promise this for everybody, but that took about two or three months of me being deliberate about this is what I'm gonna practice. I'm I'm you know, Bible study's great, reading toes are, you know, all that's devotions are wonderful. Um, but I'm gonna put aside reading through the Bible in a year. I'm gonna get three months behind because I'm just gonna focus on this thing. And and and just again, just getting back to what we're we're saying, it there is, I don't think there's anything more important than being than knowing the voice of God. Yeah. And and if you if you can't develop that um it's like a faculty. I was thinking about this this morning. You know, there's there's um, you know, we we we don't just see things, right? We don't just hear things. We actually see the things we give attention to. We hear, I mean, we do get kind of hearings are a little different, but I I have to give attention to that camera, to see the camera, right? Um faith is the same, is the same thing. It's a it's a faculty that allows us to focus our attention in a particular direction, particularly in, you know, into the kingdom. And and so, you know, faith comes by hearing, we know, hearing by the word of God, and that word of God is spoke is spoken. It's Rhema, it's not logos, it's not studying your Bible, although God can speak, obviously, through your through scripture. Um but um but yeah, I I I can't tell you when when the time was that I started hearing, you know, God clearly. Yeah. But that that discipline made a big, big difference for me. Yeah. So so getting back to your question of you know, how do you um how do we coach business leaders to be more kingdom-minded? Um Yeah, you that's an interesting word. I didn't I hadn't thought about that word, kingdom-minded.
SPEAKER_03:To me, you you listed a a number of things there. Yeah, yeah. Um that that again, I would I would, you know, maybe even summarize uh in the following ways like, hey, um, if you're gonna be a kingdom-minded business leader, remember where transformation comes from, right? Renewal of my mind. Remember that that uh I'm I'm an agent of the change that he's bringing, right? Um I need to remember that he has a method to the to to the way that he operates. And it's my it's my responsibility to to know that method and to to seek to align with that method. Uh and that those methods won't necessarily reflect the methods of the world. In fact, they will almost never represent the methods of the world, right? Um, and so we we we don't need to to miss that. If we want to be kingdom-minded in our in our business, in in our uh in our in our workplaces, uh, we've also got to be people that that hear and know the voice of God when he's speaking. Right. Right. Um and and understand that that that listening is uh again, it's a it's a target and a practice. Uh, you know, I don't know many leaders who wouldn't like things to, you know, hey, I gotta, I I mean, I I need to catch a beat, right? Let me let me slow down for a second. Like a lot of leaders would love, like, you know, they're running, they're chasing, they've got a million things going on. If they if they could feel like their thoughts were held captive, I think that would be a blessing to many. Um, and that comes from from practicing that method, right? Practicing those things. And so um, everything you're saying, I'm going, hey, these are some really practical things that a Christian leader can hear, can understand, can know, can practice. Um, and and they're they're transferable, right? Oh, okay. And so, so that practice then, right, when when lived out in their own life with practical experience, becomes the means by which they are are better equipped to disciple others.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_03:Right. Um, so that those individuals experience the lordship that Christ longs, uh, that Christ deserves, uh, and and brings uh that abundant life, right? That that that we know about. Yeah. Um, and so again, I I I see this thread of lordship to discipleship to to leadership uh and how God has has woven and connected uh so many of those those themes together.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I appreciate you should you you putting it that way because the the the lordship definitely has to be first. I hadn't thought about it that way, but um there there has to be Be um a a surrender. And that's the only way, in my mind at least.
SPEAKER_03:That's the only way that that I could possibly seek long uh you know, you you come back to this phrase, and I know it's so it's so uh core to a lot of the things that God has called you to. I will not have a desire in my heart for him if he's not Lord.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Right? And I won't have uh desires in my heart that I can trust, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:If he's not Lord.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that that's a problem. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And and I think sometimes, um, again, particularly in our post post-Christian kind of Western context, we've got a lot of people that that identify with Christ out of um a variety of different things. And I won't say that they're insincere, um, but but this the the reality of his lordship uh as the driving factor in their life is is uh well it's it's less developed than than it should be. And I'm saying it soft because I know there are gonna be leaders listening to this that that man, uh you know, I don't want to I don't I'm not sitting here to bash anybody.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, I don't want to browbeat anybody, but but we want we do want um and and this isn't a cliche, you know, it's because we love them that we want them to find the way. That's right. And and and to know Well, it's the better way. Yeah, it is. And and I think that um some of the things we just don't we just don't recognize, I guess. You know, I want to say think about, but it's not just thinking about them. Um it it's believing, you know, it's believing them. You know, it's believing that the kingdom does have an order. There is an order to the kingdom. There there are there are um there are rules and and there are promises and there are consequences. You know, and and of course we don't we don't hear about the consequen, you know, we don't hear about the conditionality of the gospel. It is conditional. You know, God's love um is sacrificial, yeah, and it is offered to all, yeah, but there is condition. And there's conditioned being in relationship with him, right? And and and he does have ways and he does have thoughts, and he wants to give those to us, and he wants us to um and and they're and they are freely offered. Yeah. They cost us. I mean, you know, that's one of the, you know, the Wells. Well, yeah. It's it's uh, you know, again, it's uh we I don't want to scare anybody away, but um, you know, if if you don't believe that his life is better than yours, then you're not you're not gonna have his life. Because that's just the way we are. We're gonna choose what we think is the best thing for us. Um and so some some of this is that there there probably is for some an an and and if we're talking about discipling others, there are some foundational, fundamental things that we need to make sure we're passing on. You know, that that yeah, yeah, you can you can make your own decision here. You can decide, you know, what's best for you, but that's kind of what they did in the garden. And and you know, that's just not the way you're gonna, you know, if if you want success with the Lord, if you you know, if you want to be a kingdom man, yeah, and you want to benefit from you know all the things that he offers, um, then you're gonna have to do it his way. I I mean he's the king. So but he's a good king. Yeah. You know, he's is he really is a good king. He can't came to set us free from ourselves. That's my story. I mean, I that really was the the moment for me is I didn't realize it at the time, but when when I finally surrendered to his lordship, that was just free that was a freeing he he broke me out of my out of jail. I mean, he broke me out of pr my own prison. And um it it it was as it is for many, you know, it was palpable. I mean, I it it it was like they say, you know, the the the weight lifted off of me. When I finally um, you know, back to my, you know, the the pride story, um, you know, when I was walking down the hall to that Bible study, I some people may be old enough to to remember this, but you know, the in the army they used to you have this flak jacket that had a had a lining in it, right? And I I went hunting one time and and got soaking wet, you know, and so I'm I'm walking with 50, I'm carrying around 50 or 60 pounds in a jacket, right? That's what I felt like when I was walking down the hall. I felt like I was walking through wet cement. I was just so oppressed. And and I didn't get free in the meeting because I was just so dumbfounded at what I had heard, but eventually, you know, I surrendered and and I, you know, I I repented and I, you know, recognized my pride and and God set me free. You know, it was a free it was a freeing thing. And, you know, I'm I'm I'm saying things that everybody knows. You know, he he has our he has our own good. He works all things for good to those that love him or are called to his purpose.
SPEAKER_03:Amen. Well, I think that it can be so easy to dismiss the things we've heard so many times um because we have a propensity to long for the new. When it's the things that are told so many times, they exist because they they're true.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:They they have lived longer than we have. Yeah. Right? That's right. Uh, and that comes all the way back to uh the power and impact of authorship. Uh well Rob, I I love this conversation and I love uh your story. I love the freedom that God uh has has brought you through. Um I love the the way you think so deeply and consistently. Um, you know, group of group of leaders gonna be listening to this, hearing the story. Uh, would you have any kind of you know parting word for them? Uh, you know, I I know you're not gonna know where they are in their life or their leadership, but but maybe some uh either words of encouragement or or practical things that that you would just offer them briefly to to say, look, this is this is one practical platitude and turned into practice that I would offer you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:What would you what would you say to them?
SPEAKER_01:Well, um maybe there'll be a couple of things. So, so one, you know, just just to kind of uh give the full structure of, you know, when we're talking about desire and transformation, um, you know, my my experience, you know, the the process that we use at at Inlight is um is is wrapped around or or um came to us through Psalm 37 uh four through six and it says, you know, delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desire of your heart. And so the the Hebrew word uh right there for delight is not um feel good about or celebrate. It's actually a different Hebrew word. And and in it's only used in this psalm, so it's kind of like a hidden thing. You know, it's the glory of God to hide a matter, it's the glory of kings to search out. So this is one way of searching out matters. The word there is anag, it means to be soft. So it really says surrender. If you'll surrender, God will give you the desires of your heart. And then it goes on and it says, commit your way to the Lord. So here we are back to it's not my not my way, but your way. If I'll just lay my way down, if I'll give my way to him, he'll he'll he'll figure out how to get me where he wants me to be. And and it won't it won't be as disruptive as I think it might be. You know, he knows our frame. Um my my experience is he has transformed me, you know, iteratively through my life, and and he's only put on me what what I could bear in him, you know, trusting him. Which is the next thing. Commit your way to the Lord, trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass. I don't have to bring it to pass. I mean, he's saying, I don't want you to bring it to pass, I'm gonna bring it to pass. And and then he will bring forth your righteousness as the light, and your justice is a noonday, which is just like outside of my head understanding, right? I mean, Christ is my righteousness, he is our light. So it's speaking some to the Matthew 5.16. Yeah, yeah. You know, um, and then the whole thing about your justice is a noonday. I mean, he's basically going to um what's the word? Um gosh, I can't, that word won't come to me. It begins with a V, but um Vindicate. He's gonna vindicate. He's gonna vindicate you and what you've this crazy thing you've done, you know, this crazy step that you've decided to take. Um He's gonna vindicate you and he's gonna vindicate himself in in that work. So that I I I think, you know, understanding that that process and then the faith is I mean, obviously faith is the most important thing. Or uh well, we could say love is the most but but you know, faith, the process of we we need to know that faith is a process too. So th I maybe this I think this is practical, it's at least from a kingdom perspective, it's practical. So so faith is a process too. Um we there's the hearing of faith, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Um there is obedience to the faith, and then um there is the work of faith, which perfects the faith. And so this is why it's important to get to the end, right? And and it's with the heart that man believes. And so Yeah, I I I feel like I always need to share this with leaders, with any anybody, because a lot of us, you know, we we were we were raised in the church, and and it is true that scripture says that um you know the heart of man is corrupt. You know, who can trust it? Okay. Um that's talking about the heart of a man that's lost.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Because when we're redeemed, um, we're given a new heart. Yeah. And God wouldn't give us a corrupt one. Right. And so part of what we need to believe, which is interesting, I need to believe that my heart, where I believe, we need to believe that our heart's good, that I can trust my heart. And and so um but um Oh, okay. So the so what's interesting about this is it's that our heart is the holding place for both the desire and the faith that will lay hold of the grace that God will give us for completing the faith. So there's that. Um yeah, I had another thing in my head, but it's uh it's it's run away. Um you know, an another this is just an obvious thing, but it's something that we need to give our attention to is um he he he really does want the whole pie. You know, one of one of the the things that held me up when I was in the corporate world, the thing that held me up from being, you know, the the man of God, you know, there at Sun Trust, is I just had this notion in my head that, you know, he wanted everything but that piece. You know, that that piece and and that was my carnal mind, you know, deceiving me. I thought, well, that, you know, I I thought of a hundred reasons why he wouldn't want that part, you know. But underneath what was happening is that was my that was where I was trying to find identity, that was where I was trying to, you know, feel good about myself. That was, you know, that was where I was still, you know, wanted to be in control. Yeah. And I had given, I mean, truly given um lordship uh to him in every other area, you know, every family, church, you know, every other area but that one. And it it took, you know, that that pride trial, you know, that that judgment. It really was a judgment. To uproot that.
SPEAKER_03:To uproot that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, to uproot that. And and and really, you know, he he uprooted the pride, which of course that's where, you know, that's that's tied to identity. Um but it also was just the the he just opened my eyes, yeah, you know, to to so many things. And and that's really what happens. Uh and that's a that's an interesting um another interesting thing is is it it really is true we were talking about dying, yeah, you know, giving a part of my life away. I'm I'm giving up my rights to myself. And and and honestly, I think very few of us do that all at once. It does come in pieces, you know, and that's a continual thing. It's a continual thing. Um But the return, the return really is, I mean it it it it is, it's not it's not that I believe that it is, right? You know, it's not that I um I I can trust him that it will be. I mean, he proves it over and over again. Every time I give up something, I get more than what I've given up back. More back in return. More back in return. And um and and then just to to to turn this to the discipling part, um you know you you you can't be a disciple maker if you're not being discipled. You know, and and and so and and and that means surrendering to being discipled. Yeah. You know, it it it's uh it it can be a humbling thing, however you do it. You know, if you do it with a group of men or you do it with one other person, you know, for me to to as the example that we've talked about, for me to go into that meeting and to have those two guys tell me you've got this pride thing going on, and me not just to completely dismiss it out of pride, you know. Right. You know, that was that was a it was a dying, that was a it was a dying moment. Yeah, you know, but um man, the things that he did, I would, you know, I had my first like eyes open vision out of that, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Wow, and I'm a firm believer that it's in the midst of of suffering. God doesn't waste an ounce of suffering. It's in the midst of that sorrow or that difficulty, it's in the midst of that dying, it's in the midst of those things that he he's birthing uh greater things, right? He's bringing about greater things. And the no better example than the cross itself. Right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Um well, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And we we get to participate in that in a real way. That's right. And um, and it I guess uh, you know, it does prepare us um to disciple. Yeah. Um it prepares us to and and and you know, when when I was, you know, in my 30s, my forties, even my, you know, 50s, even in in ministry, I I was very much focused on on getting my thing, you know, moving my thing forward, right? It's you know, I've got a I'm responsible for this ministry. I'm responsible for this business. Um, but there does come a time, and not necessarily when you retire, but there does come a time where where something i i i if you're if you're a kingdom minded, there is there is a switch that my experience has been there's a switch that goes on in your mind where it's like I've got to invest in these other people. It's not just because the Bible says for me to. I've got a desire. I want I want this next generation to be prepared, you know, and I think for what they've got to do.
SPEAKER_03:And I think a lot of that's gonna be driven by love, right? Love for love for them, love for uh, you know, hey, I've seen, I've experienced, I know. Uh and I know that's you know that your heart for the next generation is in so many ways driven by that. It's a desire that they wouldn't uh repeat the the the woes of the past, right, uh, but that they would uh accomplish the new thing that God is wanting to accomplish in their day and in their time with the learning experience and wisdom of the past generations. Right. Um Rob, I love that we get to sit down and have some of these conversations to navigate some of this stuff, man. Your story is one that I think demonstrates um uh fundamental elements of the Christian life and and faith, and particularly the journey of uh a Christian leader, uh irrespective of where we are in the world. And so um I'm I'm thankful for you, brother. I'm thankful that we get a chance to sit uh and chat through these things. If somebody wanted to find more about uh uh inlight consulting and and some of the things that you do, uh what's the website for that? Uh what uh what what's the best place for them to follow you? Is it uh is it a website, is it a YouTube link? Is it uh, you know, where is the best place for somebody if they wanted to connect with you more, where would they go to do that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, mo most of what I'm doing now is is writing. So um inlight consulting.org. Okay. And we have a blog, you know, we've got a blog site there. So it's it's mostly those articles and um of course we've written a few books. Yeah. So and they're good books. I'm I'm just the pen. So I can say they're great books. I couldn't have written them, you know. So um they are they are good books and and if if people want to email I mean, you know, I'm I'm open. People want to call, email, you can find the information there.
SPEAKER_03:Um so Well, I know we'll have we'll have links to those kinds of things in the in the show notes in the you know uh various places, but uh we'll throw those in there, man. I think that'd be great.