ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
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ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Ep. 70 | Why Evangelism Still Matters Today
In this episode of the International Leadership Institute podcast, Dan Slagle sits down with Norival Trindade, ILI’s Vice President for Training, to explore the heart of evangelism in today’s changing world. Together, they discuss the shift from a “missions over there” mindset to recognizing the urgent need for the gospel here in the West. Norival shares why discipleship—not just preaching—is the key to empowering every believer to take ownership of evangelism. Through personal stories and practical steps, this conversation highlights how friendship, hospitality, and intentional discipleship can reignite a passion for sharing Christ.
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Hi friends, Thanks for tuning in to the International Leadership Institute podcast. My name is Dan Slagle, I serve as one of the international directors for the Institute and I'm privileged today to spend a few minutes with our vice president for training, Norval Trendage how you doing, norval, I am doing great, excited about having this conversation about the theme that lies at the center of what we do.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right. We're talking about evangelism. Our stated mission is to accelerate the spread of the gospel by raising up leaders of leaders. To accelerate the spread of the gospel by raising up leaders of leaders. Accelerating the spread of the gospel is a good definition of evangelism getting it out there, getting more people into the kingdom. You've been a missionary missiologist for a long time, so you are especially qualified to address these sorts of things.
Speaker 1:As you know, for the last couple of hundred years anyway, the West was the base, the sending center of evangelism and missions. We thought about people over there needing Jesus because over here in the West we already had him. But of course things have changed. The world is a different place and other countries are experiencing revival and growth, and here in the US anyway, and in other parts of the West, we're increasingly becominga secular society, those in need of evangelism being the people who need to be evangelized. One of the questions I have for you is. One of the questions I have for you is when it comes to thinking about ourselves and the work of evangelism. I've noticed that we still have the mindset that it's people over there who need Jesus, but we're okay. That it's people over there who need Jesus, but we're okay when statistics, as I said, point out that's not the case anymore.
Speaker 2:Why do you think we're holding on to that old model and old viewpoint of evangelism? Well, it's always comfortable to hold on to an idea that let's say was right, and we all nostalgic, we all wanted to be 1950 again. Right, and I think that is part. Unfortunately, the church has outsourced the Great Commission to the pros. So let me say me as myself, as a regular church-going individual I love Jesus, I love to go to church, I do everything, I raise my children in the ways of the Lord, but unfortunately I have been fed a narrative that missionaries are the ones who evangelize, evangelists are the ones who evangelize. Evangelists are the ones who evangelize. It's specialized work. It's a specialized work. My pastor is the one who evangelizes and I have to say, dan, as a leader, as one who pastored for 10 years, we are responsible for that.
Speaker 2:I believe the church, the institutional church, has failed to engage the regular lay person that is sitting there in the pew. Now, of course, this is not every church. It's probably truer of traditional mainline denominations that have long histories and have evolved into these massive organizations and have lost a sense of movement. That usually is how they started. That usually is how they started, but so, and what that resulted is, in Christians, that, first of all, we are ignorant. We don't know about the needs, like you said. We think they need the gospel out there, but over here we don't.
Speaker 1:But even that they need the gospel, but somebody else is going to uh is going to go so. So how do we begin to rectify that, if? If we have led our people in the wrong direction, how do we now turn around and begin to lead them toward a place of understanding? No, evangelism is the responsibility of every believer and it is every bit as much needed and important here in the West as it ever was overseas.
Speaker 2:Well, Dan, I'm thinking. Probably my answer to that question is one word that needs to be explained and expanded upon discipleship. We are called. Jesus called us to make disciples. He did say in Mark, go and preach the gospel, but in Matthew he was very clear make disciples of all nations. And his method was making disciples and his method was making disciples. I don't think any of us can influence more than perhaps a hundred or a few hundred people in our lifetime, but to those we have the responsibility of helping them be apprentices to Jesus.
Speaker 2:I loved this new expression that a lot of people are using. It was I don't know if he coined it, but John Mark Comer in his book. I believe it's Practicing the Way he talks about switching the word from disciples, because it's not a, it's a religious word, but apprentices is a word that anybody can connect to. You're learning a trade, You're learning a business, You're learning a profession, You're learning something with somebody, and if we can somehow bring a small group of people around us and help them become apprentices to Jesus, like we are, I believe that. And of course, apprentices to Jesus means apprentices to making other disciples, and part of it is receiving from Jesus that passion to do so? I think that is probably my answer to this.
Speaker 1:Well, my own experience would support what you're postulating. I was led to Christ by a retired missionary who not only introduced me to Jesus but then, over a period of about a year, proactively discipled me.
Speaker 1:He began to teach me this is what it means to be a follower of Jesus, and his discipleship was very comprehensive. We talked about the spiritual disciplines, but we also talked about the importance of ministry and the importance of evangelism. Had that not happened in my life, if he had simply led me to Christ and not taken the time to disciple me, I can't help but wonder whether or not I would have understood the seriousness and the imperative of evangelism. It took that discipling experience for me to do that. The Western approach to church, I think, think, works against us in that regard. We can preach the greatest sermon on evangelism ever preached, but it's going out shotgun style to however many listeners are sitting in the in the pews and it's very difficult, if not impossible, to help people begin to feel the responsibility, the burden, the weight through a sermon. I think we've got to, in addition to good sermons, focus on that discipleship element where we help individuals understand that this is part of being a christ follower yes, and interesting that you would mention your own experience.
Speaker 2:Mine is the the exact opposite. I grew up in church, but when I you're not helping your case here, okay?
Speaker 2:well, I grew up in church but I was, when I gave my life to Christ, my personal decision. I was not properly discipled. I had to the lost and for evangelism. But I am not an evangelist and I believe I could have been a better evangelist in terms of my commitment and passion to do it, if I had had that initial process that ingrained in my spiritual faith as a spiritual baby at the time the discipleship. That's why I believe so strongly that it needs to be started early in their season. Early in their season, as long as somebody begins to walk with Christ, to help them start sharing their faith.
Speaker 1:Now. Discipleship, of course, is a broad term, encompasses many things. When it comes to the work of evangelism, let's get down to brass tacks. What does it mean to disciple someone to become an evangelist? What do you actually do? What are you teaching? How are you teaching an individual to own their evangelistic responsibility?
Speaker 2:Well, I believe the first thing is start early. I believe and there's a whole movement out there that thrives on that principle that as soon as someone decides to follow Jesus, they need to be challenged to go and share it with somebody else. Right, whether it is a Hindu in South Asia that made a earth-shattering, life-changing decision because he's moving away from the religion of his ancestors or her ancestors, or a Muslim in some part of the world, the same thing. It means a total break from family, from their lives, from all of that. It's a dramatic conversion.
Speaker 2:But that person, the challenge now is hey, this happened to you. Did you experience this transformation? Your neighbor needs it. Find somebody, find a friend and start carefully sharing that. Or in the free world, where it really doesn't matter, Nobody's worried about what faith you have. So your conversion might have a transformational impact in your life, but you're safe. You're in a safe environment, but in this same place, in this same environment. If Jesus did so much for you, this is your opportunity now to go and uh and share it with somebody else. Of course, there's a little bit of training, so that's what that's.
Speaker 2:What I'm getting at is the training well, help them articulate what happened to them. That's like I guess that's the training that that we do. So you know, um, at ili we teach uh four things. That that a person should, uh should, do is first, is briefly state where they came from, where were they at the point of decision and and probably what brought them to a point of of out to Jesus or calling out to God, then how it happened, how the process was. Okay, I prayed like this, I did that, I gave my life to Christ. What happened, what you felt, what you experienced. And then the last one or the third one is how your life is different. What happened, what you felt, what you experienced. And then the last one or the third one is how your life is different from what it was before you encountered with Jesus. And at the end, an invitation hey, if this resonates with you.
Speaker 1:would you like to experience the same thing that I did? Okay, so sharing your testimony essentially is what you're getting at there Pretty much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sharing your testimony. I believe the essentials of the faith, who Jesus is, is part of what you discovered. So you're going to have to try to explain at least a little bit of the process of repentance. Why did you come to Jesus? Because I was lost, right? Because I needed Jesus, because, and I needed Jesus. And then, when I came to Jesus, I learned that he had died for my sins and all the salvation story. If you will, it has to be part of that testimony, because otherwise, otherwise, I didn't just come to meet a person, I came to meet my redeemer, who died to purchase me from the power of sin and death. And so, of course, they're not going to be able to say it like that, right?
Speaker 1:No, question about it. Knowing your testimony is vital to the whole experience. If you can't articulate what has happened to you, it's going to be very difficult to persuade someone else to go down the same path. One thing I would add to that is helping individuals understand that the work of evangelism can take place in a myriad of different ways. The stereotypical approach to evangelism that I think many Christians have stuck in their minds is that we go out and make cold calls, wave a track at somebody, ask them if you were to die tonight, would you go to heaven? That sort of approach, which I suppose I'm sure in some contexts has merit and has worked, but that's not the only one Right.
Speaker 1:What has most frequently worked for me is the cultivation of friendships and relationships, gaining trust, modeling the Christian lifestyle for someone so that they're able to see with their own eyes. Wow, not only can you tell me what Jesus has done for you, but I can actually see it in your life. I think about a neighbor that Becky and I had some years ago. His name was Jim. We moved into our home. Jim lived in the house right next door. Our houses were separated by a hedgerow and that first day after moving furniture. I stepped out on the back porch and the distinct odor of weed came wafting over the hedgerow which immediately told me Jim more than likely is not a Christ follower.
Speaker 1:Turns out he was not. He was anything but the guy lived a wild, wild life. But I determined I'm going to be his friend and, more importantly, I'm going to do my best to persuade him and help him see that just because I'm a pastor I'm not necessarily weird. I can be a friend to you and over time that's exactly what happened. On one occasion my mower broke and he loaned me his. On another occasion he got a new piece of furniture and needed help moving it in. I helped him move it in and those kind of neighborly things happen back and forth. That gave us a chance to interact and for him to begin to see that this is who you are and this is who Becky is and this is how you guys live and what your priorities are, and those kinds of things.
Speaker 1:No deep spiritual conversations just yet Not a one. Some nine months, maybe to a year into our friendship, there's a knock at our door, a bang at our door. At about 3 am I leapt from the bed not having any idea what would be waiting for me downstairs. Go to the door and there stands Jim. He was pouring down rain, he was soaking wet, but he was also crying. So I immediately opened the door, asked him to come in.
Speaker 1:He began to explain to me that he did not have full custody of his daughter. He and his wife had divorced some time ago and he only had limited opportunities to be with her. That night he had been charged with a DUI and ran the distinct risk of losing those visitation opportunities which just killed him. And he knew that his drinking was problematic. And he knew that his drinking was problematic not only because of the custody issues but just everyday life. He pours all this out to me, standing there in my living room dripping wet, and then concludes his sharing with me by saying Do you know anyone who could help me? Do you know anyone who could help me?
Speaker 1:And I've never had a bigger door to walk through in my life than I did that night to tell him yes, in fact I do, and his name is Jesus, and we were able to pray together that night. There was no track involved, there was no cold call. It took a long time, it took a year, but I wouldn't trade that year for anything and I am convinced the impact was deeper, longer lasting, more genuine than, uh, a chance encounter on the street, that is here one minute and gone the next.
Speaker 2:So broadening people's understanding of evangelism, I think, is essential, right and and and also the importance of of hospitality and in friendship.
Speaker 2:yes, evangelism. Yes, I know we will be airing another episode on that particular subject, hospitality with evangelism. That you're going to do with Daniel Druski, ili's president, but I think of something that he said to me about. He says hospitality is when strangers becomes, makes strangers become friends, and friends. A friendship is what you developed with your friend, with your neighbor, and in a lot of studies on why and how people come to Jesus, why people come to the Christian faith, the influence of a friend or a family member but an influence of a friend is up at the top of the list of the main reasons or the main ways through which people come to Christ. And so that element of friendship, that developing that relationship, is important for those of us who are followers of Jesus.
Speaker 1:Well, like so many things we talk about in this podcast, evangelism is a huge, huge topic that is worthy of many, many conversations. This is just one that I hope will prove to be meaningful for our listeners, absolutely. Thank you for tuning in and listening. We're thrilled to be able to offer these leadership podcasts to you, and you can find us available on your favorite platform. God bless, have a great day.