ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Explore the transformative journey that is leadership. In each episode, we will dive deep into strategies, stories, insights, and the core values that shape and inspire effective Christian leaders who make an impact - all around the globe. Get ready to unlock your leadership potential.
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ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Ep. 69 | Why Do We Pray? Discovering the Real Purpose
Have you ever wondered if your prayers are actually working? Or felt like you're just reciting a laundry list of needs without really connecting with God?
Prayer lies at the heart of spiritual life across every religion, but its essence is often misunderstood. This deep dive into the true nature of prayer reveals it's not primarily about getting things from God—it's about relationship. As our hosts explain, prayer mirrors our most important human relationships, requiring two-way communication, attentive listening, and consistent investment of time.
The discussion explores how prayer functions as intimate communion with the divine, comparing it to a healthy marriage where communication happens not just through words but through presence, actions, and emotional posture. When Jesus taught his followers to address God as "Father," he revolutionized our understanding of prayer, inviting us into family-like intimacy with the Creator.
Perhaps most challenging is learning to listen in prayer. "We have to demonstrate: I want to hear what you have to say," one host explains, emphasizing that silence may be the most powerful element of prayer we're missing. Christians from resource-limited or persecuted regions demonstrate remarkable urgency in prayer—praying through entire nights for others' needs and treating prayer as their primary lifeline.
The conversation concludes with the difficult question of unanswered prayer, offering compassionate wisdom about God's presence in suffering rather than pat answers. Whether you're a prayer novice or seasoned practitioner, this episode provides practical guidance for transforming your conversations with God.
Ready to revolutionize your prayer life? Start by practicing intentional listening.
When you begin ILI training, you will discover how the Eight Core Values will lead to the Seven Outcomes in your life and the lives of those you lead. Join a community of leaders who are ready to change history and make an impact in this world. Discover more at ILITeam.org/connect.
Prayer is a global phenomenon, isn't it, dan? I've read that is a universal practice. Every religion does it, every people do it In an attempt to sometimes get favor with God. In an attempt to sometimes get favor with God, in an attempt to acquire things or just to connect with the transcendent.
Speaker 2:Sure, I cannot think of a single religion or religious movement that did not involve some kind of prayer, some kind of communication, because, bottom line, that's what it is it's a communication.
Speaker 1:And it's part of that sense that every human being has that there's more to it than the natural world.
Speaker 2:I think there's a desperate hope that there's more to it than the natural world. I think there's a desperate hope that there's more to it than the natural world.
Speaker 1:And we used to joke that even atheists, when faced with danger, will cry. My God, you know Foxhole prayers.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:So let's begin our conversation about prayer around the question what is prayer, after all? You know, sometimes we have, and now, of course, we're talking about Christians. We're not talking about the other religions because we don't even know why and how they pray, because I've never been a Muslim or a Hindu.
Speaker 2:Me neither.
Speaker 1:I know you haven't either. So what is prayer after all? Because in Christianity, a lot of times I've seen a lot of prayers where the perception is that prayer is reciting a laundry list of my needs and wants to God. So what is prayer? How would you define prayer for us?
Speaker 2:Well, I'll take it back to the creation story, to the creation story. From the very beginning, god has desired fellowship with his creation, with men and women. He has desired relationship. The work of Jesus on the cross was to restore the broken relationship.
Speaker 2:Well, fundamental to any relationship is communication, and not just speaking, but opening one's heart to another person. Deep communication, yes, meaningful communication that is connecting us, not just transferring information or making requests. I would say that it's absolutely essential for the health of any relationship that that sort of communication takes place. My wife regularly reminds me of the importance of good, healthy communication. We would not have much of a marriage, probably not much of a relationship at all, if I just touched base with her once a week, or even just two or three times a week. That's not a marriage relationship, that's roommates maybe. Well, in a similar sort of way, I think God desires above all else for us to know Him and for us to be known by Him, and prayer is perhaps the fundamental means by which that relationship is facilitated. We're invited to step into that relationship, absolutely.
Speaker 1:You know, the idea that we have a personal and intimate relationship with God is pretty unique to the Christian faith. The Christian faith, it's something that Jesus brought when he called God, abba, father, and told us to pray our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be your name, etc.
Speaker 1:Etc. So that, and you're right the only way to invest in a relationship is by spending time, by communicating, by sharing not only words but our lives with him. And Paul says pray without ceasing, and that's the idea I love, the idea of marriage that you bring up with becky. So christina and I are constantly together, uh, and and and that's we. We are constantly in communication with each other, through the day and through the, and whenever we are awake, and not just with words, exactly when Becky and I are sitting in church together or watching a movie, or out for a walk.
Speaker 2:If I reach over and take her hand, unprompted by her, that's communicating something. Yes, that's reassuring her of my presence, of my love for her. If I speak her love language, which is acts of service, if I jump in without being asked and do the dishes or clean the house, that is communicating something to my wife. Neither of those require a single word on my part. In fact, to speak of it would probably lessen it If I were to say look, honey, I'm doing the dishes. That would cheapen it and I think in a similar sort of fashion, prayer is not always words. Prayer can be manifest in a number of different ways. Obviously, the analogy breaks down. I'm not going to hold God's hand. There's not anything that I can necessarily do for God that he couldn't do for himself, but I can demonstrate to God my love for him through the things that I do and my emotional posture toward him, absolutely yeah, you know what, Dan?
Speaker 1:something that this brought to my mind is Brother Lawrence of the Cross. He was an ancient or Middle Eastern writer that wrote a book called the Practice of the Presence. That has impacted my life of prayer, and he talks about not moving a straw. That isn't, for the glory of God, Right, and he talked about living in the presence of God, and this little book is a very easy read but at the same time a very deep read, and that's a good sense of what it is to really pray.
Speaker 1:I've even got a page from our book, our training book, when we talk about prayer in our devotional series for the History Makers Journey, the training that we publish, that we call Prayer Conversations with the God of the Universe. And we have a couple of quotes here prayer secret, fervent believing prayer lies at the root of all personal godliness. By William Carey, the famous father of modern missions, or Oswald Chambers that says prayer does not equip us for the greater works. Prayer is the greater work, and so prayer is so, so important, and so it's important also that we understand exactly what is prayer. But why do we?
Speaker 2:pray. Well, I think we pray for a number of different reasons, the first being what we have just discussed the establishment and maintenance of relationship with God. We also pray because we need things. You know, the Lord's Prayer give us this day our daily bread. We have to make known to God our needs, whether that be for material things, food, forgiveness of sin. There is that aspect of prayer that involves words and involves explicit communication. I think we also pray to be clued in to the will of God. I think it's in moments of prayer that our hearts are most closely attuned to what God wants to say and what he wants to accomplish, and we've created an environment whereby we can actually hear what it is he is trying to say to us. So I would almost go so far as to say why do we pray? Well, it's contextual, it depends in the moment. Sometimes it's oh my God, I desperately need you. It's a cry of desperation. Other times it's we worship you, lord yes, yet other times.
Speaker 2:It is forgive me, father. Once again I have strayed from your good and perfect will, I have hurt this person, I have said things I shouldn't say, so depending on the the situation in the moment, we we pray for a whole lot of reasons.
Speaker 1:Right, yes, now I want to dive deeper, a little deeper, into this getting ready to listen, to hear the voice of God, because we've talked so far. We've talked about prayer as as as us addressing God, but prayer is a two way conversation, isn't it? Yes, and actually our moments of prayer are the opportunity for us to hear God's voice, and I think one of the most important elements, and probably the most important thing that I've learned about prayer in the last I don't know few years, is to shut up to silence is that silence is a part of prayer, yes, so that we can hear voice, hear God's voice, and you and I probably already had some experience speaking to people that when they speak, they don't breathe long enough for you to respond. I feel like sometimes our prayers are like that we speak so much that we don't hear. This is a discipline that is important to learn in our life of prayer. That is important to learn in our life of prayer that we listen to God as well.
Speaker 2:I'll go back to my relationship with Becky. Sometimes I will try to watch TV and listen to Becky at the same time, or read a book and listen to Becky or some other preoccupation and listen. Becky understands that's not possible. I'm not really hearing what she has to say. And once she said to me I need you to listen to me with your face In other words, I need you fully focused, fully tuned in to what I am saying.
Speaker 2:She happens to know how ADD I am and how monofocused I can get, and so it's essential, If I'm really going to hear what she's saying, I've got to tune in and pay attention. Well, the same in our relationship with God.
Speaker 2:We can't be casual in listening to Him. There has to be intent, there has to be desire, there has to be focus. We have to demonstrate. I want to hear what you have to say, whether that is silence, a single word, a command, a conviction, whatever the case may be, I've placed myself before you in order to hear what you have to say to me.
Speaker 1:I've placed myself before you in order to hear what you have to say to me, Dan. How do we do it? How do we learn how to?
Speaker 2:posture ourselves to hear God's voice. What do you think the first step is to do it? To determine in our hearts this is what I desire. I desire to hear from God. We have to create a situation, an environment, an attitude in our hearts that enables us to do that. And just as I can't watch TV and listen to Becky, I can't be preoccupied with what's online. I've got to carve out listening time, place myself before Him, practice the discipline of clearing my mind so that I can hear. And, mind you, this doesn't happen overnight, you know. Just like learning to pray doesn't happen overnight, learning to listen doesn't happen that quickly either. It requires practice. You mentioned, brother Lawrence, the practice of the presence of God. That intimates. We never have it down, we have to practice.
Speaker 1:We keep working at it, don't we? Daily yes, and start small, don't? I mean? Don't try to be Brother Lawrence in the first week of practicing that of hearing God's voice or praying. But I think the comfort is it will come, and it will come sooner than you think.
Speaker 2:I think God wants to communicate with us more than we want to hear him honestly.
Speaker 1:He's just waiting for the opportunity and he is gentle in that way.
Speaker 2:Yes, I don't think he's going to take any of us by the nape of the neck and say listen up, this is what I have to say or write stuff on the wall. Yeah, that worked for Daniel.
Speaker 1:But it wouldn't work for us, but for us today.
Speaker 2:I think God is looking for those who are looking for Him, and when he finds that person who genuinely desires to hear what he has to say, he's going to speak.
Speaker 1:Yes, amen. Now, dan, you and I have a pretty extensive experience traveling around the world, and I mean we're privileged to say that we have met Christians from almost every continent, indeed, and we've been into almost every continent and we've seen them pray. What, in your opinion, is unique about the prayer? Oh, another detail We've also been to places where our faith is very restricted, yes, and where people can literally go to jail or die for being a Christian, for coming to Jesus and for proclaiming the gospel. So I think I would like for the two of us to kind of give a perspective on what prayer means to people in these parts of the world.
Speaker 2:Well, most of my time, as you know, is spent in South Asia, primarily in India. Most of my time, as you know, is spent in South Asia, primarily in India, and the primary lesson I have learned from my Indian brothers and sisters is the importance of the urgency of prayer. It's not something that we get around to, it's something that we must do. I remember once, at the conclusion of a conference, we were standing around talking and my interpreter said to me Brother Dan, sister So-and-so would like for you to pray for her marriage. And I said, well, sure, tell her, I'll do that, thinking I'm going to put that on my list and I'll pray during my prayer. And he let me know she wants you to pray right now for her marriage. And that is the consistent experience that I have in India when someone asks you to please pray for them or about something they mean in the moment, let's stop what we're doing and pray, which is not the practice here in the US. Here, it's sure, I'll pray about that and we go our separate ways. So that urgency.
Speaker 1:And I have to confess a lot of times we never remember it and never really pray for it Exactly. And I have to confess a lot of times we never remember it and never really pray for it Exactly. Yeah, I've begun to do this. I get WhatsApp messages about prayer and I begin to say, listen, I'm not going to lie to this person if I say, well, I'll be praying for you, and the message goes up the feed and I never see it again. I just made it a point to stop Right then, Right then, and pray and be honest about it, right.
Speaker 1:It's interesting that what came to my memory about experience I've seen the passion with which Africans preach Latin Americans the same, but probably my most dramatic experience with prayer was when I was in Nepal, in your neck of the woods. I was in the middle of a conference. My mother got sick and to the point of death. Sick and to the point of death. And one night, inexplicably, a call came through to my cell phone in the highlands of Nepal saying that my mom may not make it through the night. Well, I turned around and asked my brothers hey, like we do, hey, please pray for my mom. She's very bad, she might not make the night and if something happens tomorrow we might have to leave the conference, fly across the world, et cetera, et cetera and went to sleep.
Speaker 1:The next morning I got up, received good news that my mom had improved, she was out of the woods and I shared it with the Nepalese and they celebrated and I discovered that they had been praying all night. I asked them to pray. They simply went to pray and never stopped until we started the next morning. That really touched me. I carry that memory to this day God answered their prayers. But that's the sense of urgency that you're talking about and the willingness to sacrifice for the sake of intercessory prayer. Yes, this is they were willing to give us or God that whole night to pray and intercede for my mom.
Speaker 2:I think our material wealth often works against us in that regard. In many of the countries where you and I have traveled and done ministry, prayer is all they have, yes, whereas we might go to the bank and get some money to take care of this or that or the other thing, or we go to the local hospital which is just down the road, or we go to the grocery store, which has more food than can possibly imagine. For many of these people, those things are not readily available, and so the only option is to pray yes, which I can see how that would lend itself toward being more inclined to pray than perhaps those of us here in the West are so probably the last question that we need to talk about because I think that is very real for just about everybody is how about?
Speaker 2:what do we do? How do we respond when God does not answer the prayer as we expected him to? That is a very difficult question and there are no easy answers. It would be silly for us to sit here and act as though there were a pat-ready answer.
Speaker 1:I certainly don't have one.
Speaker 2:Nor do I. I think there are some helpful truths that we can learn and understand here in the States, especially from a pastoral perspective. It's important that we address this question carefully and compassionately. Typically, when someone comes to us and wants to know why their prayer hasn't been answered, it's not over something trivial. It's usually over something very, very serious. I think of a family in the last church where I served. Their daughter, coming home from school one night, was in a car accident and found herself in a coma right at the point of death. And the time came where the family had to decide are we going to take her off of life support? And a very well-meaning but perhaps unwise brother blurted out to the family well, you just need to give her to Jesus. And I'll never forget what the mom said. She looked up and said I'm not giving my baby to anybody.
Speaker 1:So I wouldn't either.
Speaker 2:Heavens. No, we had prayed fervently for hours that this young lady would recover, that she would live. As it turns out, she did not. In that moment, when they were having to release their child, that was not the time to begin to engage in conversations about why some prayers are not answered. That's a conversation for way down the road. In the moment, the need is to be pastoral, to be compassionate, to be loving, to identify with, to cry with, to feel their pain, with them and at a later time perhaps have the conversation. In my own experience, when God has not answered prayers in the ways that I thought he would or wanted him to, desperately wanted him to, I have chosen to fall back on trust. He knows better than I do.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:And even though the answer to this particular prayer makes complete sense to my mind, this particular prayer makes complete sense to my mind because he is God, he has a deeper, wider understanding than I ever will, and I choose in those moments to say, as Jesus did not my will, but yours, not my will but yours.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know. I'm reminded of many years ago, when I was in seminary, a German theologian, jürgen Moltmann, came and spoke at our seminary.
Speaker 2:I remember that.
Speaker 1:And I believe he had lived. I think he lived through the terrible things of the Second World War and saw all the tragedy and the suffering, and he talked about God being present in suffering, suffering with us. So when these prayers go unanswered, I mean when it's a little thing, we don't care. A little thing, we don't care. But when, when it, when, when we care, it's because it becomes a tragedy or becomes some moment of great suffering. And and jurgen talks about god not either avoiding or delivering, but he being there. The suffering, suffering, god, right. And so the presence of God in our suffering is the consolation. And you were there with the sister, right, yes, and so your presence and the presence of the other members of the church, however misguided their statements were, was an expression of the presence of God in the midst of suffering. So sometimes, when God doesn't answer a prayer of somebody else in the body, it's our presence with them. That is the healing process of understanding, because saying your will but not mine, but it's that assurance that God is here with me, god is here with us, that gives us the consolation, and it all starts with a life of prayer, right? I don't think that's going to happen if we don't have a life of prayer, if we're not consistent in that secret place when God answers our prayers with a no, that's when it's going to be the hardest for us to endure it, for sure, for sure. And so this episode was an invitation to pray. Why don't we finish with a prayer? Sounds good to me, right? Father?
Speaker 1:I thank you for having this conversation. I thank you for those who are participating in this conversation and, lord, I pray for them. I pray for every person that hears us to commit to learning a life of prayer, to a lifelong learning process, so that we all may be intimate with you and have these conversations with the God of the universe in such a regular way and with such intensity that we will be able to face the issues of life with your love and your guidance and your strength, and I pray that in Jesus' name. Amen, amen. Thank you for spending this time with us. Thank you for being part of this conversation. We pray that it will use you. It will bless you. If you found it useful, please make sure to like share, put a comment in there. It helps the algorithm find us for other people that also need to be part of this conversation.