ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
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ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Ep. 64 | The Secret to Building Hungry, Trust-Filled Teams
Are you struggling to rally others around the vision God has placed on your heart?
In this powerful episode, we sit down to explore the essential keys to building and sustaining spiritually mature, hungry, and purpose-driven teams.
Leadership expert Dan Slagle reveals the framework for building teams with genuine ownership and responsibility. After 20+ years in Christian leadership contexts, Dan knows firsthand that most vision-bearers struggle with the same challenge: getting others to care as much as they do.
The conversation unpacks three essential pillars for fostering ownership. First, a culture of trust forms the non-negotiable foundation where team members feel secure enough to take risks without fear of unfair consequences. Second, the critical importance of hiring emotionally mature people who naturally take responsibility rather than "delegating up." And finally, the courage to give meaningful responsibility and stand beside people through both success and failure.
Ready to transform your leadership approach? Listen now to discover how trust, maturity, and meaningful delegation create the environment where ownership naturally flourishes.
When you begin ILI training, you will discover how the Eight Core Values will lead to the Seven Outcomes in your life and the lives of those you lead. Join a community of leaders who are ready to change history and make an impact in this world. Discover more at ILITeam.org/connect.
You know how getting the vision that God's given you accomplished is such an incredibly difficult task. Listen, the most effective solution is actually mobilizing others to join you in the work that's going to require helping them to develop a sense of hunger and ownership in the vision and mission that God's calling you together to meet. In today's conversation, I'm sitting again with Dan Slagle, an incredible leader, experienced, knowledgeable. We're going to talk about what it looks like to have and to build and to keep hungry teams and leaders together. Dan, I love getting a chance to sit and talk with you, brother, you've got just some incredible wisdom and insight. I know you've been leading in Christian context for more than 20 years. You've been leading in Christian context for more than 20 years, and so I'm sure that you've run across this in your leadership.
Speaker 1:My question I've often heard and Patrick Colangione says it right that the ideal team player is hungry, humble and smart, and I love that framing.
Speaker 1:I think it's pretty accurate, I think it's pretty helpful and when I think about even the intentional Christian context for leadership, I think, lord, you gave the apostles and by them, through them, and now even to us, this concept of ownership of vision and participation in vision and I would say that that concept of ownership and that concept of being hungry right In your ideal team player, those, those are kind of married, those kind of come together in my head. Man, how do we in in a leadership context where we're we're seeing that there's maybe a lack of that hunger or there's a lack of that perceived ownership? What are some of the ways that we can address that? What are some of the ways that we can walk alongside those individuals to help introduce them to the blessings that come from taking on a responsibility and then the blessing that comes from watching that responsibility met right? How do we help people engage in some of that? I know that's a big question.
Speaker 2:Maybe you can help us break it down some here, so I'll take it from the macro to the micro. Okay, on the larger scale, I think one absolute prerequisite is a culture of trust. The team needs to be able to believe that the leader is not simply going to be someone that tells the truth, but does what he says he's going to do, follows through you know, not false promises, but creates an atmosphere where nobody feels surprised, disappointed, hijacked.
Speaker 2:Those kind of things are going to happen from time to time. We're sinful, broken creatures, but by and large, the atmosphere of the team working together is I trust you, You're a man or woman of your word and I feel confident moving forward and even taking responsibility because I trust you.
Speaker 1:I think that's so—I want to pause here for just a second because, man, that when I think about creating a context where people feel the opportunity to have ownership, I don't think I would have necessarily thought of trust.
Speaker 1:But I think I think you're right.
Speaker 1:You know, if you don't have trust and you don't have the confidence of what the response will look like when failure comes right, because failure is inevitable in the process of taking risk, in the process of ownership, you're going to take risk and you've got to have that trust as to what is the response going to be. And it doesn't mean the response is all going to be, you know, all sunshine and rainbows and positivity, but you want to have enough trust that, hey, when inevitably something fails, I'm going to be able to come have an open, honest conversation and I know that I'm going to be heard in that process and I'm going to be felt in that process. And I also love you pointed out that trust isn't just not telling lies. It's that when I make a statement that could be made false in the future, right. So when I promise a thing that the future could make that promise then false because I haven't done the thing I said I was going to do. That's another element to that trust. Thank you for setting that foundation, sorry for interrupting.
Speaker 2:I just think that's so so good.
Speaker 2:I learned this the hard way, this the hard way. Early in my ministry I worked for a man who did anything and everything but establish a culture of trust, and the most egregious thing that he did was he would come up with an idea, which typically was a good idea, and at a staff meeting, introduce it and people get excited about it and people are thinking, oh yeah, I'd love to help make this a reality. And then he would almost run with it single-handedly. Increasingly, the staff began to feel like spectators instead of players in the game, and I remember, after I had been working for this individual for about a year, thinking to myself why am I even here? You know, you get me all fired up and excited about this and I'm thinking about oh yeah, I could contribute this and I could participate in this way, but at the end of the day, no, shoved off to the side. That's one of the reasons I say that atmosphere is is so important, because if there's a lack of trust, people are going to drift away.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, whether you want to or not, you're going to be doing things solo. So that would be my starting point. Uh, secondly, when you hire staff, you want to hire grownups. Here's what I mean. Children do not, should not, take responsibility. That's part of being a child. Mom and dad are responsible there you go.
Speaker 2:I remember once, when my youngest daughter was about eight or nine years old, she came to me and she said dad, I'm really worried. I said well, what's wrong baby? And she said I'm worried about taxes. I said taxes, what do you? How am I going to pay my taxes? She had seen an HR block commercial or something yeah, I said baby, um, that's not anything you have to worry about right now. That that's mom and dad's job.
Speaker 2:We'll take care of the taxes there you go they'll come a day when, yeah, you'll have to think about that, but for now, that's, that's on us. That's a child who cannot, should not, take responsibility. Grownups take responsibility, mature adults. And so, in the hiring of staff, you, one of the things you want to be looking for, are the indicators of personal maturity.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:Is there evidence that you have taken responsibility in the past? That's right, uh. Are you an emotionally healthy person? Yeah, or are you, uh, one who's inclined to delegate up instead of taking responsibility, making the life of the leader more miserable? Or a pass-the-buck kind of person, the victim? You know all this kind of thing. I realize that there's no surefire means of being absolutely certain every staff member. You have, of course, thoughtful questioning of the individual and looking into their past and looking at references, and even using tools that are available. When I was at FaithBridge, one of the tools we used before hiring staff was this thing called Insights, which helped us identify how a person approached leadership.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Broke it down into four very familiar quadrants. The reds were the type A's take charge. The blues were your hyper-organized every file in its place. Yellow's the life of the party. A green was your more thoughtful pull back. Consider all the options. Gaining that kind of understanding about the individual and getting all the information you can beforehand can save you a lot of trouble. Once you have your team assembled, have enough courage to give them responsibility.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They may blow it.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:From time to time they probably will.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But a leader doesn't do the work of 10 people. A leader gets 10 people to do the work of 10 people. Yeah, do the work of 10 people. A leader gets 10 people to do the work of 10 people, and there is nothing more motivating to a staff person or a member of an organization than to be given an opportunity fully yeah understanding that, okay, I've got to deliver. And if they're a grownup, that's what they're going to be thinking.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, okay, I got to get after it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm going to do the best I can to make sure that this thing is delivered on time and all the bells and whistles and so forth. Obviously, you're not going, you know, put a dump truck load of responsibility on someone you know who's just starting out. You want to make your responsibilities that you're giving away commensurate with the abilities of the individual, right?
Speaker 2:uh, that's how you grow people that's right, you know, okay, you did good at this. Here's more responsibility, right, and and increasing that, I think, if those three things at least are in place an atmosphere of trust, a mature staff, emotionally, spiritually, and genuine responsibilities being handed out yeah, with expectation yeah I think you're going to create a working environment where people are motivated to jump in because they're going to have a sense that I really am making a contribution. Yeah, it mattered I was.
Speaker 1:I was talking to another leader, um, a couple weeks back, david daniels, he's's on our board. He's got probably 300, 400, maybe 500 staff under his ultimate influence as a leader and he was reminding me. He said, hey, look, everybody's looking for belonging and an opportunity to make a contribution. And an opportunity to make a contribution right, and providing a context where you have those things is a context where people are going to begin to thrive and people are going to begin to, you know, come into their own. And I think, as Christian leaders, we have to recognize that's part of God's design, right? He designed us for a purpose.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm with a lot of marketplace leaders and one of the things I've heard them say is hey, work was in the garden before the fall, right? So work is an expression of worship. And when we see it wasn't in the garden, it wasn't just this leisure land, but there was something good there. And so when we help people engage in work, we're helping them live out a purpose and a calling and and those are good things, those are, those are positive things and and I'm I'm reflecting as I'm listening I'm going okay, so I've got to have that, that context of trust that's so important. I want to make sure that we're giving those sincere opportunities for responsibility.
Speaker 1:It reminds me, you know, when we talk about visionary leadership and setting goals, we talk about the art of delegation.
Speaker 1:You know, at ILI, as we walk through that particular core value, we note that in the art of delegation you're going to cast that vision and then you're going to help there to be a clear, you know set of goal right, a clear goal in that process measurable, actionable, realistic, attainable, time-targeted.
Speaker 1:And then in the process you let them run and when they need support, you come back right, you come back and serve in that way to help because there might be, there might be resources or assets that, as the leader in the organization you have access to, you can unleash. I've heard another well-known Christian author. He said look, as the leader, your job is to break down all the barriers. If there's an obstacle in the way, you have authority to remove that obstacle, and if you shouldn't remove it, you'll know why and what the consequence is to it. But all of that is still presuming that there's that person who's longing for that, who's engaging in that. We all have a story, we all have history and I can't say the global reality of this, but certainly in a post-Christian context that you and I live in in the West, in the United States in particular, there can be this tendency culturally toward really the recipient of the consequences around us, not a participant in the creation of our context.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Okay, and so all of that has led to context where I think sometimes with leaders here, particularly in the United States maybe I look forward to chatting with some of our other brothers and sisters abroad to see if this is their reality you got people who have woundedness, who fear responsibility, who fear some of those things In your mind. Is that a trigger for us to say, hey, maybe they're not, maybe they don't have that maturity yet, Maybe they lack some of that emotionally healthy position? Is that where you see those things kind of taking place? And how do you meet people in that moment? What are some strategies to help crafting a context where healing ultimately takes place and that re-engagement in responsibility and ownership can begin to take hold?
Speaker 2:Well, generally speaking, understanding there are always exceptions. Those are the kinds of people that you minister to, but you don't necessarily hire.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, there you go, don't necessarily hire.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, there you go. Uh, they're certainly worthy of your time and your pastoral efforts to to help them find the healing, whatever the brokenness or the woundedness may be. And it may be that in that process of healing as a leader, you see, oh wow, there's incredible untapped potential here. But to put them in a position of responsibility when they have not dealt with those issues is not going to be good for anybody. For the leader, they're not going to get done what they need done.
Speaker 1:And for the individual.
Speaker 2:It's only going to reinforce their sense of worthlessness and failure. You don't want to set people up for failure. People rise to the occasion based on their maturity level. I'm coming back to that maturity.
Speaker 1:That phrase, that concept.
Speaker 2:Concept again If you are in a position where you're hiring people, you have the advantage of discerning.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:Making a decision? Yeah. Have the advantage of discerning, sure. Making a decision, yeah. Sometimes, though, a leader is thrust into a position where the team is already in place, and then, uh, part of the job of the leader is helping people either grow beyond their immaturity or inviting them to step off the bus. There you go, which is never fun to do.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:But we have to think about the whole. You know, yeah, it's not the many for the one, it's the one for the many.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:Now, obviously that requires maturity on the part of the leader. Speed of the leader. Speed of the team.
Speaker 1:That's right yeah.
Speaker 2:And if an unhealthy person is at the helm, they're going to attract unhealthy health. You know we, we attract who we are you. You put two emotionally unhealthy, codependent people in a room of a thousand healthy people. They're going to find each other every time because they're going to be put off by the health.
Speaker 2:They're going to be threatened by the health and they're going to be looking for. Oh, there you are. You're just as messed up as I am. I don't have to feel bad about myself. I don't have to feel bad about myself. Same sort of dynamic happens in hiring and in gathering a team. If you're not an emotionally healthy person, chances are pretty good you're not going to gather those kinds of individuals around you. In the case where you inherit an unhealthy person, I would say from a Christian perspective, our first response should be one of compassion, Of course, yeah.
Speaker 2:And how can we move beyond this?
Speaker 1:How can?
Speaker 2:we address it, deal with it. And if we're able to wonderful.
Speaker 1:But in the unfortunate instance where we just can't get past it, then we have to make the hard decision to perhaps make a change, right, right, okay. So we've talked a little bit about what it looks like to create a context where healthy ownership can thrive. We've talked a little bit about what to do when gosh, we just can't get people to that place. I'd be curious, I think there Right, which again is another form of unhealth I heard one leader. He was talking. He said you know, he always knew that he could get, if he hired people who had just a little bit of insecurity and were a people pleaser, he could always get the tasks accomplished. Right, because you hire that kind of person, you can always get the task accomplished. But he was confronted by wait a second. That doesn't sound like a very Christ-honoring structure. That kind of feels like using people. That kind of sounds like the objective isn't the individual and their growth, their health, their discovering of purpose or all these other things. It's just, hey, you're a robot in the process, just to achieve my aims.
Speaker 1:That's corporate America, I'm telling you, but we know that's not the way of Christ, we know that's not the way of the body of Christ, whether we're in the marketplace or not. So here's a question what if you have an individual who has a hyper sense of ownership? Okay, and here's what I mean. They take ownership of things outside of the scope of where they actually have ownership. Right, they begin to say wait a second, I have to protect, or I have to, you know, I have to practice a measure of influence over here, right, leadership influence over here, even though that is outside of the defined purview, defined influence that I have been delegated or given. What do you do with that? Because my natural thought is well, man, you've got somebody who's trying to take ownership. That's a good thing. You don't want to squash that. How do you help to disciple that, to develop that, to work that into a healthier place?
Speaker 2:I heard a very seasoned leader say one time that the job of a leader is to define reality, and that is a task that happens on the macro scale, for the whole organization, but also for the individuals. This is your reality, these are my expectations, and part of defining reality is creating healthy boundaries so that people understand that this is in my purview. This is a part of my responsibility. This is not. Do I have the capacity to take on more? Perhaps you do?
Speaker 1:Great.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's talk about what that might look like. But at the end of the day, if the leader decides no, your greatest contribution is to focus on this. That needs to be made clear to the person, because you got to think about the whole team. You don't want someone feeling like, hey, you know, that's my area, stay in your lane. And if a leader is absentee or strictly focused on productivity, you're going to wind up with a group of people who do feel used and who do not feel as though they are making a contribution. They're not growing and probably going to be leaving sooner rather than later. So a leader needs to have the wisdom and the courage to define reality for the organization and for each individual and, when some monitoring is necessary, be willing to step in there and do that for the good of the whole.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, that's such a good reminder it can be. You know, I'm thinking there are contexts where sometimes that desire for ownership is an expression of I don't like what I currently have ownership of. Yes, right, sometimes it's I just I care a lot and I'm deeply passionate and I have greater capacity than my current, than my current capacity or my current, you know, responsibility set, and so there's an opportunity there to say, ok, well, maybe you do, maybe you don't like.
Speaker 1:OK, you know. Yeah, you have greater capacity, but you're lacking the maturity or you're lacking the whatever. Okay, that's a developmental issue. Let's just you know.
Speaker 1:let let's pathway that out. Let's let's look at what that's going to be like into the future. Um and that's, uh, that's wonderful, dan. Here's. Here's maybe a kind of a closing thought, or or or or idea.
Speaker 1:There was a famous leader, maybe he was a US president, I can't exactly recall who said it. Point is it's not my saying Success has many fathers. Failure is an orphan. Develop a healthy concept of ownership and responsibility. Nobody wants to be given the garbage bag. Nobody wants the situation that's already totally messed up, totally garbage.
Speaker 1:It's a different thing to take on that and then be given that and go, wait a second. I don't want ownership of this. This is a project car, not a car that I can drive every day. You know, this is a project car, not a car that I can drive every day. Yet how do you?
Speaker 1:How do you sometimes, sometimes, hey, you still got to that project car, still got to work how do you help to identify the spiritual or the emotional maturity necessary for those kinds of projects? Right, sometimes, in an organization that you lead, you've got, hey, this thing still has to exist and it's just not pretty right now, right, right, and I'm going to be giving you a thing and you're going to have ownership of a thing and it's not going to be something you're going to be proud of for a little while, how do you help to inspire that, encourage that or just identify who can take that Right? Right, because as a leader sometimes you go yeah, you know, my marketing arm is just weak, yeah, and it's not strong right now. I've got to find somebody. Or my children's discipleship, you know, in my church is just it's not a pretty thing. But I need somebody who's going to come in and take ownership and they're willing to begin that ownership. In a position where it's kind of ugly, how do you discern or navigate that process?
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's incumbent upon the leader of the organization to be always teaching the team, whether that be explicit, proactive sort of teaching or teaching by example.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And one of the many lessons that needs to be taught is we're not always going to get to do what we want to do.
Speaker 1:Fair enough.
Speaker 2:And we're doing ministry, and ministry involves brokenness, whether that is broken people or broken systems, and it's going to be the responsibility of everybody at one time or another to have to jump into the mess and take care of it and just helping people understand before it comes their time. This is part of the deal, you know, uh, I remember when we had our first child, uh, there was a time when, um, she not only, of course, needed her diaper changed, but she had an upset tummy, and you know that means crying, and you know the whole. And I remember thinking to myself gosh, I didn't sign up for this.
Speaker 1:Well, yes, I did yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes, I did that just comes with the territory you know, and helping people understand ahead of time.
Speaker 1:This is this is ministry.
Speaker 2:There's fun parts and there's unfun parts. You need to understand that. Be an observant leader and notice who is capable of rising to the occasion and who, for whatever reason, either isn't in a position to do so right now they've already got more than they can say grace over as it is or who hasn't developed enough to take on this big, hairy mess Maybe the small mess that comes along I'm going to give to them and see who rises to the occasion, see who's capable. When you begin to observe that one individual isn't capable, find out why. Is this a fear factor?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Is this a skill factor? Yeah, you just haven't gained that skill yet and, as a leader here, I'm going to show you how. This is how you do this. Or is it an immaturity factor? Any number of reasons can inhibit an individual from performing a task, pleasant or unpleasant as it may be, paying attention to who can do it and always being available. The only thing worse than having to take on a mess is having to take on a mess alone and having the sense that you know sink or swim.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Check in with me when you have swum.
Speaker 2:Yeah, If you've sunk, don't buy. You know, Followers want to know. Okay, if I take this on, you got my back, You're going to be. I'm not going to delegate up. I'm not going to slough this off on you or anybody else. I'm going to take it. I'm going to take it, I'm going to take it seriously. But I just need to know when I need guidance, when I need help, encouragement, whatever the case may be, You're there to give that to me. And when the mess has been fixed, you noticed? Oh, yeah, there you go, it wasn't just okay. Next thing no, the leader takes time to say thanks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, before I went into ministry I worked in uh electrical controls for a steel fabricating company. That's incredible. And I remember once we had a huge job up in Kutztown, Pennsylvania, a little town outside of Philadelphia. It was the installation of a system needed in an auto battery manufacturing company and it had to be done yesterday, and so our team was sent with a mission to you just go, go, go. And I remember we would be up at 4 am breakfast and on the job site by 4.45 and would work until 8, 9. There were nights. I came home, came back to the hotel, I didn't even bother to undress, kick off my boots, I just laid down on the bed and I grabbed whatever sleep I could. And the next, I didn't even bother to undress, kick off my boots, I just laid down on the bed and I grabbed whatever sleep I could. And the next day we're at it. And this was like two weeks of this, but we got it done.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so we load up the trucks and we drive back to Austell where the business was, and it just so happened that the, the company owner, the president of the company, was there when, when we arrived, and he was aware of what we had been up against and what we had accomplished, we got out and basically all he wanted to know was um, was the owner happy? And then he turned around, walked off. He didn't say anything remotely like thanks, guys. I know that man, you gave the extra effort. A well, you're getting a paycheck. That ought to be good enough, yeah.
Speaker 1:Paycheck is in praise.
Speaker 2:I almost wanted to quit right there. I thought, wow, I gave my all for you and all I get is a paycheck and letting you know whether or not the customer was happy. No, I didn't need a parade, right, but just some acknowledgement. People will be more inclined, I think, to take on messes in the future if they know you've got their back. Yeah, and when they've done a good job, it's acknowledged Good job.
Speaker 1:Man, there's so much wisdom there Because, yeah, if they're willing to take on the mess, right, that's the worst case scenario, right, and to miss that opportunity to praise, to encourage, to acknowledge, to express appreciation can be a real danger. And you know, yeah, we want to be people who are quick to do that right.
Speaker 1:Gratitude, I think, is a core characteristic of the Christian life because we, of all people, have every reason to be grateful for so many things. Well, dan, this is so helpful as I think through what does it look like to create a culture of ownership, a culture that is hungry, as it were? Man got to have that foundation of trust, got to make sure that's there, got to be helping to create a context where not only are spiritually and emotionally mature leaders developed, but welcomed and held. I've got to be looking for those opportunities to acknowledge and praise when ownership has occurred and that transformation has taken place. I mean that's a critical moment in that life cycle so that individuals see that.
Speaker 1:Because you know what, I bet you there were people in the organization who saw that crew come back, knew what they'd been going through and they didn't take ownership of that problem. You guys were the crew that came back home, right, but they're looking going well, gosh, they just went and did all that. I got no desire to take ownership of anything, because even when somebody does look at this and that note, I do think that there are, there are some leaders who think that the opportunity is appreciation enough and and that's. I just don't think that's true. Uh, it's.
Speaker 1:It's not the opportunity that that expresses appreciation, it's the expression of appreciation, after the facts and to note how, how that has to be received Right. Um, some people need appreciation in different ways and to note how that has to be received right. Some people need appreciation in different ways.
Speaker 1:And so you know to take that extra time and to remember, yeah, it's not that, as the leader, we're to do 10 jobs, we're to get 10 people to do 10 jobs, and that's so critical. Dan, as always, I'm just so thankful for your insight, for your wisdom. Brother, this is something I'm learning and growing in as well as a leader, and so I'm thankful to be able to navigate that conversation with you. So thank you for that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Leaders, listen. You have a God-given vision and mission and part of that is going to be connected into expanding the kingdom of God to reach the nations. Look, the global need for the good news and the hope of Jesus is bigger than you or me individually, but it's not bigger than the whole body of Christ. That's why the whole body is called into that good work. At the International Leadership Institute we equip leaders so that you can advance the kingdom and mobilize the whole body to accelerate the spread of the gospel. If you want to find resources, be connected in more to our community, I want to encourage you go to iliteamorg. There you're going to find some good resources, some connections and help you a part of all that God's doing, not just here but around the world, and listen. If this is helpful for you, I want to encourage you like, subscribe, do the different things so that we can know and engage and help bring you the most important and valuable content and questions to help you grow in your life in leadership. Thanks so much for joining us today.