ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Explore the transformative journey that is leadership. In each episode, we will dive deep into strategies, stories, insights, and the core values that shape and inspire effective Christian leaders who make an impact - all around the globe. Get ready to unlock your leadership potential.
When leaders are equipped, kingdom impact multiplies. Equipping leaders and spreading the Gospel. Let’s change history together!
This podcast is brought to you by the International Leadership Institute.
ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Ep. 59 | Five Keys to Developing Future Leaders
In this powerful episode of the History Makers Leadership Podcast, host Daniel Drewski sits down with David Daniels to unpack one of the most critical challenges facing organizations and movements today. Finding, developing, and empowering the next generation of leaders might be the most significant challenge facing today's Christian leaders. Without a clear framework for identifying potential and a process for nurturing growth, organizations risk stagnation and missed kingdom opportunities.
In this transformative conversation, seasoned marketplace leader David Daniels shares his proven "Five C's" framework for identifying and developing emerging leaders. With over 35 years of leadership experience at Chick-fil-A, overseeing hundreds of team members, David brings practical wisdom that works across any leadership context—whether business, ministry, or community service.
David also unpacks the four questions every team member silently asks: Do you see me? Do you hear me? Do you believe in me? Do I belong here? Leaders who answer these questions create environments where emerging leaders can flourish.
Whether you're building a business, leading a ministry, or developing a community, these insights will help you create a culture that champions growth, accountability, and legacy. Grab your notebook and get ready for a rich, value-packed conversation that will challenge your assumptions, sharpen your leadership vision, and inspire you to take action.
When you begin ILI training, you will discover how the Eight Core Values will lead to the Seven Outcomes in your life and the lives of those you lead. Join a community of leaders who are ready to change history and make an impact in this world. Discover more at ILITeam.org/connect.
You know how it's hard to figure out who those next generation leaders are and really a process for developing or discipling them or even kind of finding them in your team or network. Listen, I'm having a conversation today with David Daniels. David is an incredible leader with decades of experience leading in the marketplace and leading people in general. You're going to love today's conversation as we break down what he's got as five C's for effective identification, development and some foundation for why and how to find those next generation leaders. I think you're going to love today's conversation. It's rich, it's full. Get your pens, get your paper. It's going to be a great conversation.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining us today on the History Makers Leadership Podcast. Thanks for joining us today on the History Makers Leadership Podcast. David, I'm so thankful to be able to sit down across the table from you and to kind of think through some elements of leadership. I know you've always been such an encourager for me personally and just a great example of leadership and Christlike humility in the midst of that. Just a great example of leadership and Christlike humility in the midst of that. And I'd love to talk a little bit today about really next generation leadership finding them, developing them, understanding, maybe some practices from that.
Speaker 1:I believe that the most effective Christian leaders are multiplying leaders. They are helping to develop, disciple and create those kinds of movements of momentum toward kingdom transformation. But it's really hard to know how to do some of that. Would you mind first just kind of unpack for us what's your context for leadership? I know you, I have the privilege of living in a city here near you, but the leaders that are listening may not have that same kind of background. Would you kind of fill us in a little? What is your background, what's your context for leadership? Um, and you know, how do you really think about identifying those, those next generation leaders?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Thanks for the invitation. I really appreciate it. Uh and yes, I've actually worked for a company called Chick-fil-A and Solana based uh fast food chain. If you will, we serve the world's best chicken sandwich. But we're actually known for people, which really drew me to Chick-fil-A, and so I have a background in ministry. I thought that I was going to be a church planner, probably a pastor somewhere along the lines, but I really had a passion for business and so, to be able to do both, I really learned the concept early on that your mission field is where your two feet are planted.
Speaker 2:And so you can have an opportunity to have that impact on not just folks that darken the door of a church, but you can have that in the context of a public community. So I chose to pursue Chick-fil-A. I've been doing this a long time, started Chick-fil-A in 87, and I've been an owner-operator in our local community here Currently oversee about 350-so staff members fixing to open an additional location. I think in the next two to three years we'll be pushing about 500 folks in my care and so really take stewardship really heavy in these type of roles. I understand that God has put me in a place of leadership to help cultivate the next generation of talent, and so for me leadership is more about how do I steward my gifts and what God has called me to do, and less about, maybe, the outcomes of running a business. Now I do believe, when you run a business, that we are called to be faithful stewards.
Speaker 2:We have to steward what God's given us, and so for me it is restaurants. There are real dollars that transact, there are real customers that come in and eat with us, and I love that. But Chick-fil-A is more about the platform. It is necessarily about my calling and so, kind of as we get started, one thing I love to challenge new and old leaders. A lot of times we get stuck in this rut of believing that our work is our purpose or that our job is our calling, and it's really just the opposite For a lot of us. We have to really identify what is my God-given purpose and God-given calling. And then the platform is where I exercise those gifts, and so that could be at the job that you get paid at. We all live in a world. Today we have to draw an income. Bills do come, so we do need to be paid.
Speaker 2:But I think for leaders early in their journey and I know we're going to talk about identifying those- but I think it's really important that anybody listen to this, especially if you're in a role or leadership yourself that you're really capitalizing on understanding why are you here? And so calling and purpose are really God-given Amen, and those are the reasons you consume oxygen. I firmly believe if you're breathing today, god's not done with you. You have a specific purpose and calling to fulfill and so, just as an example for me, early in my career, I got caught up in this whirlwind of success. I thought success was all about, you know, sales and dollars and all those type things, and through a unique experience that I had in the nation of Haiti, I'm a big believer in missions that's why I love ILI but God really wrecked my world in the nation of Haiti through a unique experience, where I went from this idea what does it look like to be a successful leader? Instead, what does it look like to have a significant impact on the next generation as a leader? And so going back and re-identifying hey, chick-fil-a as a business is not my calling. And so, through a series of development opportunities I had, I really have really crafted this idea like why am I here?
Speaker 2:And so, for me, god has put me on this plan to help the next generation of leader to identify their giftings and their callings and then equip and align them to go do that. So you'll notice in my statement there there's no chicken, there's no delicious lemonade, there are no things related to business. It's all about I'm here to help the next generation identify why God put them here and then give them the tools and resources to go do that. That's right. So as we kind of transition into leadership, I think it's important foundationally as leaders, we both know this the hardest person you'll ever lead looks you in the mirror every morning when you wake up, and so it starts with this idea of really strong discipline around self-leadership. So a little longer intro, but I think it's important we understand I never want to be identified as the Chick-fil-A guy. I do love what I do. I wouldn't do it otherwise.
Speaker 1:Of course, and I'm so thankful you did that, because I think there's sometimes in Christian leadership conversations we kind of can unintentionally create buckets for ourselves rather than realizing as well Christ-following leaders, there's going to be overlap and similarity that God puts in each of us right? I mean, we teach eight core values of the most effective Christian leaders. We talk about the power of vision, because I think you're right, Understanding your God-given vision, mission calling, purpose that drives you, that is the thing that helps you wake up in the morning, the thing that helps you have peace at night, or maybe a lack of peace if it's something that's really stirring and you like that. But in all of those contexts you're right.
Speaker 1:Wherever God places us, whether that be in a marketplace segment or in a political segment or just a community leader in some other kind of function, or in a church, Wherever God places us, we've got to be about that vision, mission calling. And I think it's good to note that because at the foundation of working with a next generation leader, sometimes that's what they don't know yet. Maybe they haven't even discovered that sense of purpose and calling. And if we kind of jump to steps two, three or four prior to having that foundation, you're actually going to set them up to think that their job is their calling, and that's where you get these midlife crises and other issues that rise, where, all of a sudden, who am I, if not this job? And I think that's such wisdom to start with that conversation rather than kind of jumping into other elements.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would tell you that the conversations I'm having with younger leaders and when I say younger leaders, these are leaders in their late 20s, early 30s who've created an identity for themselves based on the work they do. Now I believe we should honor the Lord in our work. That's right. We're to serve the Lord through our work, but it is not necessarily who we are, and I'm a big proponent of a man by the name of Dallas Willard who talks a lot about the concept. It's not what you do that matters, it's what you become in the Lord that really matters. But when you work through that identity crisis as leaders, you then can be more effective because your mission and your work and your day-to-day is tied up in accomplishing the greater purpose that you're put here. For Because you're right, young leaders especially face discouragement. Old leaders face discouragement.
Speaker 2:The climate of today is extraordinarily challenging. The only way to kind of maintain yourself through these challenges is to go back to a center of purpose, and so you're seeing a crisis today in mental health and mental awareness and mental agility. And I have a real passion around helping leaders work through that, because I've learned over the years that leaders that are not healthy in their head, are not receptive, to learn leadership concepts, to grow in their heart. And so, as we kind of go on this journey today, talking about young leaders, we have to understand our role. But you, the leader, for instance, listening to this podcast today, you're obviously listening to learn and to grow. But never underestimate the impact you have in the day-to-day and what I like to call make a moment matter and then just be fully present where your feet are. Sometimes the very presence of a strong leader can evoke things in younger leaders that we had no idea. So, as we talk about identifying and doing some of those things.
Speaker 2:I understand that, no matter where you're on your leadership journey today, you're going to have seasons. That's biblical. I mean, that's how we grow, and if you're in a challenging season today, whether that's maybe an anxiety, depression, loneliness, whatever that may be, or maybe you're facing a leadership crisis or a vacancy in leadership, we're all going to walk in these series. Just remember who you are and never doubt the fact that God has purpose for you. And so if you say I don't know where to start because I'm really buried today, it's the next step. And so that's so important, not even just for young leaders, I think for any leader as we grow. Because I think today, if we're not careful, the enemy can get a foothold. Because I think, as a generation, we're seeing careful, the enemy can get a foothold. Because I think, as a generation, we're seeing an identity crisis, and I know, as we kind of transition to the idea of young leaders, solidifying that purpose goes a long way. But then, from there, how do you activate all that?
Speaker 1:Well, I think all of this is incredibly important because, again, this is what I'm hearing. I'm hearing individuals and organizations asking this question how do we find the next set of leaders? How do we figure out what that next generation is going to look like? And again, I think you're helping us to frame it rightly. Well, hey, if you're doing that out of a sense of personal overwhelm and other insecurities in the moment, well, let's pause. Let's find some healing there. Let's remember man, god called you, gave you purpose, anointed and positioned you to be in this place. You're not the wrong leader. Sometimes we need that just encouragement and reminder. And there was something you said you know where our feet are be in that place.
Speaker 1:We live in a context particularly in the West, but the nation that uses cell phones the most, the nation that uses online media the most, is actually South Africa. So it's not just a Western issue, it's a global issue that we're so physically in one place but mentally in five others. And so I think you're right. The first step is okay, lord, clarify for self, for the organization that we're leading, what is that purpose calling, what is that firm foundation? And then even our act of being present in a room being present in a moment leading with integrity, leading with deep conviction, present in a moment leading with integrity, leading with deep conviction.
Speaker 1:All of that is going to begin to elicit from these younger, next generation leaders that are in our midst. It's going to begin to elicit that out of them a higher sense of calling, a higher sense of purpose. In your experience, is that an element of how you begin to identify? I mean, how do you begin to see those people naturally, maybe supernaturally, gifted in leadership so that you can begin to exercise pour, encourage, equip them? How do you begin to see that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question and I think for many of us to be able to actually solve that would be magic. I mean you think about, we have a leadership crisis in the world today.
Speaker 2:We see the void of leadership and specifically spiritual leadership. But in the context of just leadership in general, I'll kind of share with you one tactic we use to help identify. Now, when we select talent, we're looking at that person through the lens of where could they land in the organization. Okay, I am in a business where we sell food, and so there's obviously production of food, there's prep, there's cooking, there's selling, there's cleaning, there's all the elements that go into a business. But I think these elements transcend just food. I think, when you think about the context, whether that's retail or whether that's church or whether that's ministry based, I've kind of narrowed it down what I call the five Cs. And so when you look at young talent, what?
Speaker 1:are we really honing?
Speaker 2:in on, and so I'd love to kind of share these and maybe we can break them down just a little bit. So kind of from a high level. The five elements are does this leader have character, chemistry, competency, care and commitment? Again, character, chemistry, competency, care and commitment. And so there's a reason. Those are written in that order, and so often we're looking for the outputs of someone to go okay, they're a hard worker, so therefore they're going to be a great leader. And I would tell you that's not necessarily true. But we look to those folks that just have really really high output and then we think, oh, that's going to be the person that can get her done. You look at here in the United States. You think about NFL football, or you think about sports. There are sports athletes that are incredibly gifted with talent but are really poor in the locker room, who get passed over in recruiting. Why? Because of the toxicity they bring to the environment. So, if you'll allow me, let's talk through that.
Speaker 2:So let's start with character. You know it's the person that you really really are. You know we look for things like integrity. You know it's the person that you really really are. You know we look for things like integrity. You know, are you really truthful? Are you the person when nobody's really watching you Like who are you Right? We want somebody with strong character. We know this. This is not some rocket science, but the reality is. A lot of times we go to fill a leadership void based on the fact out of need. Oh yeah, a lot of times we go to fill a leadership void based on the fact out of need, we feel compelled to just recruit based on what we see and never really taking time to go okay, who is this person?
Speaker 1:I want to pause here for a second because this is near and dear to my heart. I think, in the midst of our leadership crisis that we see globally, we see individuals put in leadership because of charisma or because of some kind of a credential, and they're lacking those Christlike character traits necessary for longevity and transformational impact that we want to see in the world. And so I just want to emphasize that, because I think that's a unique spot in this whole journey that you've described, that ILI really is called to help lean in and provide a framework for not only defining some structure for what does that character mean but also so that there's a shared language among a team to know how do I hold people accountable to that? If I don't know how that character is defined, then my team can't hold me accountable for how that character is defined, and in a lot of places, that's one of the struggles you see in the larger body. So I just wanted to emphasize that because I believe so deeply that that's where we have an element, a key element to that leadership crisis. So we've got a lot of really charismatic people can move an audience, move a crowd, get some kind of reaction, even get momentum in a given direction, but they're lacking the longevity of Christlike character that we really see in the most successful biblical examples. Right, you know?
Speaker 1:You ask David failed and Saul failed. What was the difference? Well, when Saul was confronted in the midst of his failure, he was told to wait for me to come, wait for Samuel to come to do the sacrifice. Saul didn't, and when he was confronted about that, he defended his actions and kind of explained them away.
Speaker 1:David, when he was confronted in the midst of his sin with Bathsheba, what happens? He goes wait, who did this? Oh, it's me. And then he goes you know, lord forgive me Like he confesses and seeks repentance, professes and seeks repentance. It's not that leaders have to have this sense of perfectionism, but rather there's a character that recognizes wait a second, I'm going to be humble, I'm going to have submission, I'm going to have personal accountability, professional accountability. So, anyway, as you're talking about character, that awakened my heart in that, because I see that as so incredibly important in that process. So you're looking at character and you're trying to define that for yourself, for your organization, and you're trying to say how do we have a common expectation of character in our team? Is that kind of what you're looking?
Speaker 2:at there I get this question so where do you start? What do you mean by character? And I think it goes back to what are the core values of your organization? Like, as an organization, you have to really have a strong identity on who you are and then you start selecting talent around that. So what do you say is important? And here's one of the things core values are not something you pin on a wall A lot of times like, oh, core values are over here, just go read those and that's important.
Speaker 2:You want visual aids, but really does the team ingest? And then can they replicate these values? And so when you're selecting talent and you talk about character, if we say integrity is a core value, well, do we have patterns of integrity? That's right. If we say servant leadership, which is a core value in my organization, well, do they really exposit the whole idea of I'm serving others? And it's not just when the boss is watching, and you have to determine what those are.
Speaker 2:There are basic character traits. We want hard work and show up on time. We can all agree on the basics. But then you start getting in the nuances of what really makes your organization special and what sets you apart. And then I use this filter a lot, daniel is this the person that's going to be in leadership?
Speaker 2:And when I bring a new leader on, we talk about you're not just representing a brand, you're representing me, and so you're a torch carrier, you're the bearer of this name, and so, to me, if you can't get character right, none of the others matter. That's right Because, like you've already said, charisma dies out and you may be just the hardest worker and that's great, but, man, I'm telling you, people will follow a person of strong character over time, and that character may be somebody that's very, very quiet. I even think to the inside of this organization. You've got all personality types that are there, but some of your quieter leaders carry such a strong presence because the character carries them, and so character will carry you through struggles, crisis and the things that your organization really, really struggles with. So, foundationally, get the character piece right, really, really struggles with. So, foundationally, get the character piece right.
Speaker 2:And I'll tell you the other four really tend to fall in place because the person that you're using, you're going to select for this opportunity really does that well, man, that's incredible.
Speaker 1:So we're going to begin with that element of saying, okay, next generation leader, who's got those core character traits? Again, there's permission to play character traits that are just foundational uh, of course, right, uh. But then there's character traits that align with the culture of the organization that you've been called to lead. Um, and you're going to be, you're going to be kind of looking to identify who. Who on the team has those. Now, if I'm just hiring those people, then everybody on my team has those character traits. So how do I start to identify, maybe with these, with these other four um, with with chemistry or with, uh, I'm trying to remember all of them here. But how do I begin to identify that next leader in the midst of some of those things? Is that, is that how you filter some of that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so uh again. I know we're kind of hovering on the 30,000 foot view here, so, when you think about a leader, is this leader? What does the role, responsibility, accountability look like? What is the puzzle piece they're going to fill? What's the problem they're going to solve?
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:So I know that is typically a filter, but if we say, okay, in general leadership terms, what does this look like? If the person has strong character, that means they individually embody these values. I challenge especially a lot of my senior leadership what are your personal core values? It's really amazing to me how often most leaders don't have a set of core values for themselves. They're like, oh, I work for such and such company and this is what we believe in, here's our mantra. But I think once you solve that problem, you've got the individual side taken care of, which also correlates with what we talk about how we develop leaders. The first step of developing leaders is you have to lead self well, and so if we get some time, we can talk through that. But you know, once you got the character piece right, then it goes to how well do we work with other people?
Speaker 1:which is chemistry. There you go.
Speaker 2:And so chemistry I like to say is can you play nice in the sandbox? I mean, really, at the end of the day, we all know people that, like, maybe they have strong character, but, man, they're just impossible to work with. Yeah, and that's toxic to a culture as well. That's true. No, culture is stagnant. I mean, you think about having a static culture. It'd be great if it was. You set your culture, you walk away, everything's good.
Speaker 2:The problem is in culture. You're dealing with people, and anywhere there's people is messy. And as a leader, that's the higher calling here, because we know leadership is dealing with people, management is dealing with process. So if we delineate those two, as a leader, you're called to work with people, and so chemistry is so important because that leader now has to go from leading themselves well to actually leading a team, whether that's a team of one or a team of 50. And that's why that transcends that constant, transcends not just working in a restaurant or a church or in a nonprofit. You can actually take the concept and say okay, what behaviors do we identify in this leader when it comes to interacting with other people?
Speaker 1:So I have a question on this, because this is something I've observed. I feel like leaders today are leading more generations than maybe in the past. Right, we have a workforce, we have people living longer and staying active in things longer than any time in history, and so, gosh, I think about the organization that I lead now here at ILI, and I've got four maybe you could argue five generations worth of peoples, and obviously there are generational differences. How do you kind of look at that chemistry element across those generations? Right, there's going to be, there's going to be differences there.
Speaker 1:What are some of the struggles that you've you've run into in that and how do you help, again, particularly a younger leader, navigate some of those things? I mean, that's something I'm constantly learning personally. Right, I've got people internationally and locally on our team that are, you know, twice my age in some instances, and so navigating that with some wisdom and grace and then expecting that wisdom and grace in return has been a wonderful gift. We've got incredible leaders that we work with. How do you help to coach some of that? Or how do you help those younger leaders that are trying to practice good chemistry work across generations?
Speaker 2:I love that question and I think more organizations need to ask that very question, and the secret sauce to great organizations is communication. Oh, wow, yeah. And a lot of times you think even in marriage I know you're married, I'm married where does breakdown happen? It's in miscommunication, and a lot of times, generations don't know how to effectively communicate with each other. So we have language we're used to. You think about generations gone by my generation or older, like you just didn't call in sick to work. You just tough it up, buddy. You just put a little dirt on it, rub it in and come on to work. Now we have emotional health days that people take and I'm not knocking on those, but it's just the gap we're seeing. And so that's one identity issue. Imagine the broad-scale language gaps that we have, and so, as leaders, we have to work to create what I call common language.
Speaker 2:There are a lot of tools out there that you can do this with. I'm a big proponent of the tool called DISC. Your listeners may be familiar with that. There are a lot of tools out there string finders, a lot of those but you have to help that person identify. Okay, first of all, how do people perceive me? I love this question. What's it like to be on the other side of me? But most people don't want to know the answer to that. They want to just continue to plow the fields in the direction they want to go right.
Speaker 2:But I think as leaders, we have to find the common language. So products like DISC Patrick Lincione has a great tool called Working Genius. Oh, yes, love that one. It's a fantastic tool to help you identify. Okay, what are my preferences? What are my giftings? What preferences, what are my giftings? What are my tendencies as a leader? And, for instance, in disc oh, by the way, there are three others that are very, very different than me same thing in working genius. It's a widget concept. You know I have to understand. Okay, how do I like to be led? Yeah, recognize that other people want to be led differently. You know, highly intuitive leaders want to lead people as they want to be led.
Speaker 2:I think something we probably all can identify with is remember the five love languages. A lot of people have done this, done this in their marriage. If you're an acts of service person, but you're trying to communicate through physical touch, there's a gap. It's no different in the workplace, and so we have to create that common language. So for chemistry to work, effective communication has to start there, and when communication's right trust bonds are built, we understand that we've got the best interests of other people involved here. And the next thing you know you can create synergy. I like to use the word synergy, it's centered, focused energy. So it's the idea we can have all the horses pulling in a direction.
Speaker 2:The old saying we don't have to see eye to eye to walk hand in hand and learning that you can create cultures in which leaders can flourish, but at the same time, those leaders are speaking very different languages. Ili, we're in so many countries. Can you imagine teaching a Russian lesson in Latin American Spanish, and they're all just sitting there? Well, we have to understand. Leaders are the same way.
Speaker 2:So if I've got somebody as well as you, I have leaders across all generations. I've got folks in their late 60s, all the way down to 15 years old, and so I am responsible, as the leader of the organization, to solve that problem in its communication. So chemistry starts where effective communication starts and you have to put a plan in place and then you have to hold the line. We can never assume that people are understanding what we're saying, asking clarifying questions. Tell me what you just heard. I said, hey, repeat back to me what you heard. And it's amazing, depending on generational filters, you're like how did you hear that? But chemistry becomes the key ingredient for the glue for things to really work. And so you talk about identifying leaders, young leaders. A lot of times this is a big struggle for them because they're trying to muscle up or, you know, deem themselves worthy.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Or they want to be recognized. I will inject this here yeah, and I think this is really important, especially as leaders. You know, all leaders, all team members, all participants in our organization are really looking to answer four questions. So I'm going to give you these four questions. Do you see me? Do you hear me? Yep, do you see me? Do you hear me? Do you believe in me and do I belong there? You go, and so if we're answering those four questions, do you see me? I mean, am I just a number on a payroll? Do I just clock in and walk around or do you take time to intentionally connect me? Do you hear me? Does what I say matter when I speak? Does it add value to this organization? People want to be heard. That's right, and as leaders, we've got to learn to listen better. Do you believe in me? Like folks, that's the core of what we want. We want to be believed in, we want to know that our work matters. That's right.
Speaker 2:We're not just clocking in and scrubbing a toilet and cleaning a table and cooking a sandwich or we're not just teaching a conference, we're not just preaching a sermon, whatever your leadership is, but do you believe in me? And then the deepest longing of everybody is to belong. You want people to connect your organization, let them know they belong there. That's right, and there are a lot of belonging cues. I know there's way too much to unpack in a podcast like this today, but if we answer those four questions, that also speaks to the whole idea of chemistry, because it means you're intentionally looking to answer those questions for leaders and team members.
Speaker 1:That's right, well, and that gives me a real practical you know, as I'm looking for next generation leaders. Okay, am I answering those questions? Right? We live in a context and age where I can have lots of views but not really feel seen, a context and age where I can have lots of views but not really feel seen Right. And so, okay, how do I help, sincerely, slow down enough here, listen, make them be seen, feel seen, feel heard, the value of that in their long-term development and the relational buy-in that that that elicits? Right, because if I'm listening, they're more likely to listen. Uh, particularly when there's a, a growth or, or you know, development conversation that I don't want to have with that leader later. And so I think those are are just so important.
Speaker 1:And, yeah, we live in a, I think, uh, a context where, gosh man, people, we we've got a lot of negative self-speak internally and the enemy, we know, is out to kill, steal and destroy. And so, for Christian leaders maybe it's even you listening you might need to be reminded that man, god has called you to this purpose and there's value in who you are and what you are doing and what you're called to. But as we look at those leaders around us, those leaders we're trying to develop yeah, we got to remind them that we believe in them. Around us, those leaders we're trying to develop, yeah, we got to remind them that we believe in them. And I think key moments to that include in the midst of failure and in the midst of struggle or whatever, and I love that key phrase of belonging, because where do I fit is another way of kind of thinking about that.
Speaker 1:How do I fit in the midst of this? Because if you do have a younger leader who's growing and who has capacity, et cetera, and you're not helping them find that fit, they'll start to feel restless, they'll go. I want to. I see how this could go or this could go. I want to make a difference, but I'm not finding that place where I can really make an impact. And that's where you start having leaders that leak out and now, all of a sudden, you've lost that opportunity to continue to disciple them and help generate that next generation leadership pipeline that, again, real, systematically, you're looking for and relationally, you know you want to develop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we know this to be true that cared for people care for people, and so when you truly care about your team and again that's that chemistry piece. In other words, you don't avoid hard conversations, you steer into hard conversations. You address problems when they arise, you affirm when things go well. The great leaders know how to handle themselves in those environments. Confrontation is not negative, confrontation is confrontation. That's right. You know it can be led to affirmation.
Speaker 2:But the most loving thing you can do in an organization is to be honest and truthful with your people and that helps to maintain that chemistry. That's right. And so that's why conversations, connections, and there's so much that goes into that. I don't know, for our time's sake today can't take a deep, deep dive into that. But, leader, let me encourage you never skate past that. You have such a unique opportunity to speak life into people and you have so much control over culture. Don't let things just go. Step in. Chemistry matters. You've got the whole character piece of this leader. Now you're doing the chemistry piece, which really builds us to the bridge of the next one here.
Speaker 2:Jump into competency, that's right and that's just simply. Can they do the work?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, a lot of times we have charismatic leaders, and so that's why I'm a big proponent in your organization. Like do you have clearly defined roles? Like when you're identifying somebody that's going to lead somewhere, do they know what the role is? So it's like having a chessboard Each chess piece moves a different direction the back row are your leadership positions right? And, if you've ever played chess, each piece has a specific role. If it's a rook or a bishop or a queen, it's important to understand how those move, and you may have a leader sitting on the bench who's ready, but the role you're selecting for is not because competency is not there.
Speaker 2:I don't necessarily need somebody that's gifted in hospitality back there cooking chicken, but if I don't have a role vacant in the moment, I continue to pour into that leader. I think so often we say we can teach competencies and I would actually tell you that's true If you have strong character and you have great chemistry. But listen, when you put somebody in a field where there's strong competencies, there's a confidence that comes with that leader that they can accomplish whatever. So all of us have hardwired DNA to do certain things.
Speaker 2:That's right Now. I do believe God equips. It's funny when I first got started as a leader, the thought of standing in front of people to speak would make me physically sick, oh wow. And it's been unique to see how God has really transformed in my life. So I say that to encourage the leader. There is a journey. You go on on competency. That's why you have to own your own development. Self-develop is a journey you go on on competency. That's why you have to own your own development. You know self-development is not organic. You have to get after that. That's right. The books you read, the podcasts, you listen to the people that you allow to influence your lives. You've heard it said show me your friends, I'll show you your future. All those things bleed into competencies. That's right. You have the responsibility to grow as a leader. You know what are you doing today to be better tomorrow. You've heard the old saying when's the best time to plant a tree? It was 50 years ago. When's the next best time to plant?
Speaker 1:a tree. It's today.
Speaker 2:And so, when it comes to competencies, there are obviously soft skills and hard skills, but when it comes to development, self-development, you have to own that and take it very seriously, because if you're not growing, you're going backwards. We're not stagnant, but competencies. Hone in on the exact role, understand the job that's being selected for. It's like in your organization, daniel you've got some really incredibly smart tech people.
Speaker 2:I'm going to probably go on a limb here that you probably don't need to be in the production booth all the time doing the production. Praise the Lord, but you were smart enough to hire people that are smarter than you. That's right, there's an old concept a guy named Andy Stanley taught for years and it's this idea. He aspires to be the dumbest person in the room, that's right.
Speaker 2:It's not to be the dumbest person, it's to say I'm out there to find people that are way smarter than me and gifted in other areas. So the second piece of the competency piece, is be comfortable having people in your organization that are better at certain jobs than you are and don't allow that to affect your outcomes.
Speaker 2:So often we get in this ownership mindset well, that's my job, or what if people don't see me do this Behind the camera? Today, you've got two very talented people that are producing. This time we're spending here together. You're sitting on the camera, but you've got two guys back behind here that are very gifted in what they do. So competency make sure, on the flip side, that we understand operating your giftings is really important.
Speaker 1:I think that's such an important message because I have worked with leaders in the past where I've been blessed, they've poured into me right. They've helped me on that competency side sharing books, sharing resources, helping to shorten the length of time needed to grow in competency by pointing me to the best resources along the way right, helping to kind of cut that I don't want to say shortcut it, but cut that in half rather than me just kind of aimlessly grabbing at the next thing to try and self-develop. I don't even know some of my own failures. I'm blind to what I'm blind to but these were some leaders that really poured into my life and helped me to see hey, let me share this book with you, I just finished this. This was really helpful for me in this way. I think it'd be good for you in this way. And so as we talk about and think through, like, what does that look like for a younger leader? It's those kinds of assets, it's those kinds of resources that we can pour into them.
Speaker 1:And I think another thing, because in some of my background in restaurants, I had some leaders like this, where there was a belief that in order to be the leader, I had to be the best at everything, and that comes with requisite struggles, because that's just not possible. I can't be the best at everything requisite struggles because that's just not possible. I can't be the best at everything. I've got to have that personal security to know, hey, my role on the team isn't every role on the team. My role on the team is actually different from all of those roles. So I need to be highly competent at my role and I have to help develop those next generation leaders who have some of those soft and hard skills, have some of those unique natural abilities, but also have that ability to grow. One of my biggest, you know, we obviously serve with a leadership development organization. I believe that learning is essential to effective leadership. We have to be growing, we have to be seeking that development, and so finding an effective way to walk that journey with a younger leader, a next generation leader, a leader that you seek some capacity or some potential in, I feel like would be essential, and I know it's been transformational in my life.
Speaker 1:I mean, again, I was barely my first kind of professional leadership role.
Speaker 1:I had you know kind of other context, but my first professional, uh, uh kind of professional leadership role I had, you know, kind of uh, other other contexts, but my first professional context where I was leading, I was just old enough to order the wine, the restaurant was serving, um, you know, I was 21, uh, managing 30 different people, uh, in a, in a very slow restaurant, uh, and man, they took, they took a big swing, uh, they, they really went on a limb on my behalf and I'll never forget Bill and Susan and Jeff and the way that they poured into me, knew that I had some of the competency lacks, but were willing to invest in helping me to bridge some of those and then even well, extend to me grace when I failed in those competencies and say, hey, it's okay, let's learn here.
Speaker 1:Okay, you know, and, man, that was transformational for me, allowing me to grow at a much just in a different way than would have been if they hadn't had that intentionality, and say, hey, we see this potential, we see this capacity. We're going to take some time to work on those competencies that are missing, that are lacking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that I'll interject this here and, like you, I'm an ever-growing leader and just continually depositing.
Speaker 2:And I heard a phrase this last week that I thought was just really impactful that a single point of incompetency does not equate inadequacy. A single point of incompetency meaning there's something you're not good at. And in a lot of cultures today, if we view somebody as not good at something, we just write them off. But how powerful statement it's. A single point of incompetency meaning okay, we judge people by certain criteria, but that does not mean inadequacy. So I'm a people person and I love building systems. I don't like getting in the weeds, I don't like to do the nitty gritty day to day. I can, I have an awareness, but you think about it. Whatever your perceived incompetency might be, or you have somebody on your team that has an incompetency, don't equate that to inadequacy. It may be a training point, it may be a desire that they just don't have. But be very careful and cautious because, as leaders, our words carry so much weight.
Speaker 1:And it's such an important reminder because I think that is the kind of that element, that C, that competency, is an element. That is the natural point around which next generation leadership decisions are being made right. People look and go well, I wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't have done that.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't have done that because I've got 30 years of experience doing it Right and and we, you know, we expect that, uh, from them not realizing there's there, there are those, those elements, and it isn't a point of inadequacy, it's, it's just a point of needed development, right? I don't look at my nine year old and expect him to be able to know, do and act like my 13 year old.
Speaker 2:Uh, I recognize, oh, there's, there's things that you're just not there yet. Uh, and that's okay. Uh, but I, I need you to get there. So I'm going to, I'm going to help you, son, to develop those skills. Yeah, I'll. I'll kind of close this point with this, because I love what you just said about 30 years of experience and and I can relate to that. But let me encourage you, leader, no matter where you're in your journey you may have done this for 30 years, 50 years, 13 months never stop being a student.
Speaker 2:Never stop, like when Abraham Lincoln once said this. He said when you stop learning, you die. And guys, I'm telling you stay the student, always be a student. I've actually changed up some of my own habits in competency. I'm a reader, not by choice, but it's a discipline for me.
Speaker 2:I have to create the discipline, but I've started adding books around biographies and stories and unique figures in history, and just finishing up a book right now by a man by the name of John Muir. And if you're not familiar with John Muir in our nation here in America, he was part of the founding fathers of our national park systems, had memorized the entire Bible His dad had required him moved here from Scotland, but anyway, there's things you can learn. You don't just have to pick up a leadership book all the time. Now, pick your Bible up, stay in the Word. But leadership books are great, but you can glean things from just about any content you consume. So the idea is keep consuming content, be the student. So, uh, which leads us to the fourth C, which is care.
Speaker 2:And it's, it's interesting. You think that, oh, it's such a, such a spongy kind of sticky word care. But the question comes do you care? And I think a lot of times, especially young leaders, they want an opportunity because of a title.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:They're pursuing the opportunity because of pay, and the heart behind it is not anything more than that. What I want in a key leader is do you genuinely care about what's important in this organization? Do you care about our mission? Do you care about vision? Do you care about people? We're a people-centric company. You may be a product-centric company, whatever that may be, but do you have just an extraordinarily high level of care for what's going on, to where it drives behaviorally?
Speaker 2:We think about really caring about something we can think about relationships, those that are married. Do you care about your spouse? Well, of course you care about your spouse. Well, how much do you care about your spouse? Are you intuitive to the things that need to be taken care of, like when maybe she or he's not feeling well? Are you willing to jump in and help with household chores, like doing laundry and dishes? Are you being willing to change your schedule in order to accommodate things that may be going on in the family? Those are tangible things we recognize in care at the house, but how do you translate that into work? And it's no different. It's really this idea. Am I willing to set myself aside for the needs of the organization or the people in this organization, and people struggle with care because it requires you to set you aside.
Speaker 2:Isn't that a biblical concept, though? We learned that in Philippians. Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, who chose to take on the form not just a servant, but a bond servant. We have this idea when we're taught in Matthew 5, if you're compelled to go one mile Right, go the second Voluntarily, with a cheerful heart, is what one translation says, not just okay, I'm going to go the second mile, because I was told to. What Jesus was saying in that moment was the Roman soldiers in that day would carry these packs that weighed about 110 pounds, and the Jewish people knew exactly how many steps it took to accomplish one mile. They knew exactly, and they have these whitewash markers and we won't get into a lot of the culture of the day, but it's fascinating to study because a Jewish man would know exactly to this step, how many steps were required to do that.
Speaker 2:So the concept of second mile behavior means and Jesus said this, and boy it pricked their heart so much. They're like how dare you tell us these Romans that hate us and treat us like this and they lord over us and he's going after their heart. So when you truly have a heart that cares it's the idea with a willing and cheerful heart, say you know what? I'm going to go a second mile. Do we have leaders that have second mile attributes and behaviors in their heart? Are we looking for those moments to deeply care, not just about people and process, the company? Do they love what we do? Because, again, there are going to be days that you don't feel like getting out of bed. But when you truly, truly care, those attributes manifest in a young leader, an old leader. We want people to care.
Speaker 1:Is that?
Speaker 1:Is that where you find that sense of you know we want owner, we want leaders to, to have an ownership mentality, not not in a negative sense of the word, but a, a, a personal investment, a, a again, like I, you know, um, I believe in this, I, I own this, like I care about this.
Speaker 1:Is that where you tend to find that overlap there, where it's not just a J-O-B right, it's not just some job, but it's something that you know I have a vested interest in. Or do you see that more in the because I could also envision it right, I could also envision in the chemistry side, where it's no, I care about this team and because I care about these people, I care about our shared activity. I mean, how do you I guess I'm using the word care, so maybe it all comes back to care but is that the element that you see as being kind of your mental filter for figuring out? Your mental filter for figuring out, hey, this upcoming leader, they have the desire, the chops, the orientation to take a sense of ownership and responsibility to accomplish this task.
Speaker 2:Yeah, an ownership mindset is somewhat a requirement as a leader. It really has to be. And so you know and again I recognize the word care can feel squishy, especially in some context. So let me just share briefly how I look at care.
Speaker 2:When we break down the word care. I'm an acronym guy because I think it's just easier to remember things like this, but a leader that has true characteristics of caring will do the four attributes of care, so C being hey, I'm fighting for great culture. So C is culture. Like if you truly care, culture is king. There you go, and so we're going to fight really, really hard for culture.
Speaker 2:The A is this idea of anticipation, anticipating needs. Are you constantly having this mindset of looking around to where can I jump in today, not just for work, but the hand on the shoulder, recognizing somebody may be having an off day, intuitive to the needs that are going around us? R is the relationship piece. We know relationships, but I like to say it this way it's really authentic relationships. What does that mean? It means like you're always intuitive of what's going on around you, so that relationships are that important. If you say relationships are important but your behavior doesn't show that, if you have an apathetic approach to people, apathy just kills that, and so relationships and that's a whole teaching in itself right there.
Speaker 2:But then the E in cares. To me it's the secret sauce of a great leader. If you really get this, it's empathy, the power of empathy. We know it's different than sympathy the power of empathy.
Speaker 2:We know it's different than sympathy. Empathy is the ability to really truly put yourself in the shoes of someone else, to really feel what they feel, to really connect with where they connect and to say I am in this with you. When you truly care for somebody, you actually be with them and put yourself in there with you, and it is sacrificial. That's where we get the model of servant leadership. I mean, we understand servant leadership and again, also a very broad big teaching, and we obviously teach that here at ILI servant leadership. But you can't be a servant leader and not truly care.
Speaker 2:So again, culture, are we anticipating needs? Are we looking for those opportunities to connect? Are we really connecting with authentic relationships and, at the end of the day, are we really bought into the concept of empathy? So, leaders that care, they really really get this Amen.
Speaker 1:So I've now seen how I can kind of mentally make that filter. I've got this understanding of where competency sits. I've got this understanding of where caring sits. What's the last C and and what are some kind of mental filters that can help me see that or or help develop that in in a next generation leader.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the last C is the word commitment, commitment, and really what we're looking for is are you, are you really bought in to actually have the tenacity or the grit to follow through with what needs to get done? Okay, so there's this idea and this tension that so many people wrestle with, and it's the tension of commitment versus convenience. You know, convenience says I can't because I've got this, this and this Commitment is when you follow through with what you said you were going to do, when the feeling, when you said it is gone, think about that a minute. So a lot of times I'll commit to something and the energy's high and the emotion's high and we're bought in. But then a better opportunity comes up hey, I'm supposed to work tonight, but I got tickets to go to the Braves game. Or I've got this opportunity that came up. But I made this commitment we understand in the context of marriage. You commit, it's a lifetime commitment.
Speaker 2:We work through things, we work hard at relationships, but oftentimes, in young leaders especially, commitment's a hard one. There's a fear of commitment, and so when you work through commitment, it's the idea and I love the word tenacity, yeah, it's just to stick to it, grind it out, work. You know when things get hard I'm still committed to this. You know it's the discipline to see things through. And I use that one last because you know it's kind of the bookend of going. Okay, I kind of worked through this. But you know, when you lay out an expectation, it's like if you've got a project deadline and the deadline's tomorrow, but you're like I got to be home at five for spaghetti dinner with the family. Well, I'm all about family, like you need to be there, but there's a tension here of commitment and so, understanding that you have a pendulum swing here to go on, I'm going to follow through with my commitment and do not we teach family priority.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:We teach family priority. Never sacrifice your family on the altar of success.
Speaker 1:I'll make sure I say that loud and clear.
Speaker 2:But there are times commitments kind of transcend current moments, yeah, and we have to recognize where those are. So, as leaders, when you make a commitment, your word is binding. Follow through, even when you don't feel like it. If you've got to be somewhere, and it's just today. We're recording here in Carrollton, georgia, and it is a miserably rainy, awful day outside, and it's one of those days that we like to say you like to pull the covers back up over your head and tuck yourself back in bed, turn the air conditioner down and sleep, but we have commitments we've made, and commitments supersede our feelings, because feelings are fickle and they will drive behavior if we're not careful. Emotions seep into our day-to-day work lives, but we have to build the barriers and disciplines around that and that's where commitment steps in man it reminds me.
Speaker 1:You know, one of the last sessions that we teach with ILI is we teach a session called Finishing Well. We share about the statistic that 70% of leaders won't finish well and we share a really clear, just compelling story of John Stephen Akwari. And he was sent by his nation, african leader, who was sent to the Olympics to run in a race. In the midst of that race and it was a long race, right, I don't know, I don't know the distances, but it was a long one Something happened such that he blew out his knee. I mean, it was bloody, it was. It was tore up, he had fallen and he had to go to receive medical care rather than completing the race in the moment.
Speaker 1:Well, the race was over, the stands had cleared. There was literally one media personality still around the track who caught a photo of him going back to where he had fallen and he ran until he finished the race and he was asked about why. Everything's over, the stands are empty, everything's done, john, why on earth would you go through that agonizing completion of this race? It meant nothing and he said the very clear statement my nation didn't send me here to start a race, they sent me here to finish the race, and I think that's where I hear the echo of Paul.
Speaker 1:We're here to finish a race that God has called us to and, as faithful Christian leaders, especially as we're looking for that next generation of faithful Christian leaders, we've got to see and identify and help disciple leaders who have deep commitment, follow through tenacity, as you said, so that they can discern. Hey, how do I see those moments that transcend, or those initiatives that transcend this moment, and I go wait a second. I've got to push through to get this to the finish line, because that's what I was put here to do. It was to finish a race, not just kind of get something going. And so such an important message. Well, any kind of closing thought for a leader who's looking for a next generation leader trying to figure out some steps, any final thoughts or closing words for those listening?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think when you think about leadership, we've got a five-step filter that you can use as leadership, and I really believe it's the most important decision you make. And when you filter through whether it's Peter Drucker, some of these authors of leadership, you know who does what by when is the most important decision we make as a leader? The first word in that sentence is who, and so, as a leader, that is the most important decision you make in your organization. And so a lot of times we feel this pressure to fill quickly and I get that Like if you've got a void and it's got to be filled quickly. Hopefully you're continuing the idea we call building the leadership bench and that's how you stay ready, so you don't have to get ready as leaders. I really encourage you, like who is on the bench and how often are you willing to really reach down into your organization and mentor? The problem a lot of times is we wait until we need a leader to develop a leader. That's right, and that doesn't work Right, and so you have to have a development mindset, and mindset in itself is a huge teaching. But when we really place high value on people, we want to invest. That's right, and so I want to just encourage you as leaders, as you think about selecting and developing talent and leadership across your organization.
Speaker 2:I think everyone has the ability to be invested in at some capacity. So I'll start with that. Not everybody will be a leader, but invest in everyone in your organization. That's called stewardship. If they're a part of your team, you saw something in them that's of value. That doesn't mean they have to be a leader. Second thing is build the leadership bench In multiplication. We understand this at ILI, but it's the ability to have leaders create other leaders. There's not success because you have arrived as a leader. That's called legacy. Legacy leadership lives on long past me. When I die one day, daniel, the successes I've had in life will die with me and I will be forgotten, except for the intentional investment I made in other people.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:Legacy and stewardship live on in the lives that we get to steward every day. So value those relationships, value those inputs. And will it get hard? Yes, are you going to get tired? Yes, are there frustrating days? Yes, do people get messy and frustrating?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:But one day, as Dana's already said, that, well done, thou good and faithful servant. I want those words because I intentionally took time to invest in people and so that'd be the challenge I'd give here is kind of go forth and do the work, amen, and don't get discouraged, because there will be moments. Yeah, and we live in a fallen, broken world. We do, but the reality is, and we know this, christ has overcome the world. That's right, and we are the overcomers in this world to do that.
Speaker 1:That's right. We're the overcomers, we're the ones that carry that good news. That's right. Ones that carry that good news, that hope that we can all look to. So, leaders, I just want to invite you Listen. If this has been helpful to you I know it has because I know I've been sitting here just going, man, there's so many good pieces of wisdom and information. I want to encourage you. The International Leadership Institute exists so that leaders will be equipped and the gospel will accelerate to the ends of the earth. We want to see effective believers in the harvest field, where God has called them, where they're on mission, where their feet are planted. You can find some incredible resources at iliteamorg. We are so thankful you joined us here. If this was of service to you, share with some friends like subscribe. Do all of those things because it helps others to find meaningful resources that help to grow, develop disciple leaders of Christ-like character, with values that undergird and really form the foundation of effective Christian leadership all around the world. Thanks for joining us today.