ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Explore the transformative journey that is leadership. In each episode, we will dive deep into strategies, stories, insights, and the core values that shape and inspire effective Christian leaders who make an impact - all around the globe. Get ready to unlock your leadership potential.
When leaders are equipped, kingdom impact multiplies. Equipping leaders and spreading the Gospel. Let’s change history together!
This podcast is brought to you by the International Leadership Institute.
ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Ep. 55 | The Power of Unity: Stop Leading in Isolation
Ever wonder why we keep going it alone when the call to unity is so clear throughout Scripture? This thought-provoking discussion dives deep the leadership trap no one talks about - isolation. In this episode, Daniel Drewski and Dan Slagle navigate into the persistent tension between individualism and collaboration in Christian leadership.
The conversation unpacks several drivers behind our isolation tendencies—from cultural individualism and the human need for identity to competition and short-sighted selfishness. But there's a crucial distinction between healthy distinctiveness (serving an unmet need) and unhealthy isolation (serving ego).
The discussion tackles a frequently misunderstood leadership principle: "do what only you can do." While some interpret this as permission to micromanage everything, mature leaders recognize their unique responsibilities while still inviting others into the process. As leadership expert Dale Galloway wisely observed, "A leader does not do the work of 10 people. A leader gets 10 people to do the work of 10 people."
For the overwhelmed leader currently carrying too much alone, this shift in perspective doesn't add another burden—it finally offers relief through doing the right things. While initial adjustment takes time, the return on investment becomes exponentially greater when we embrace God's design for unity and multiplication in leadership.
Ready to break the isolation cycle? Discover resources, including our eight core values of effective Christian leadership and the History Makers Journey tool, at iliteam.org to help equip both yourself and others in your sphere of influence.
When you begin ILI training, you will discover how the Eight Core Values will lead to the Seven Outcomes in your life and the lives of those you lead. Join a community of leaders who are ready to change history and make an impact in this world. Discover more at ILITeam.org/connect.
Welcome to the History Makers Leadership Podcast, where we explore the transformative journey that is leadership. Each episode, we will dive deep into strategies, stories, insights and the core values that shape and inspire effective Christian leaders who make an impact all around the globe. This podcast is brought to you by the International Leadership Institute. Now get ready to unlock your leadership potential and let's change history together.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the History Makers Leadership Podcast. Thankful again to be able to sit down with you, dan, and just kind of talk through some things. You know I was reflecting recently. I was listening to a message and as I listened to this message, the pastor, the preacher, the speaker was just kind of communicating about the power and the importance of unity, right, and how throughout the scriptures there's all of these examples of how God calls us to unity. I mean, jesus prays for unity in the church and in just the incredible evidence that that's a thing that God desires.
Speaker 2:And I asked myself the question I want to kind of break this down with you a little bit to get your impressions why is it that we constantly go alone? Like, why is it that we know that that's a better way and yet there's so many things that pull us into going it alone, right, think of how many ministries in churches in one community are overlapping in their audience, right? How many different food pantries exist in one small community? And I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but just where do we find ourselves going alone when we see and know that God calls us to unity and there's greater strength in unity? So that's kind of what I like to just talk about. Where do you think that comes from? What produces that impetus, that drive in us?
Speaker 3:Well, I'm sure a number of factors contribute to its reality. One of them would be just the individualistic nature of American society. We are not prone as individuals, and therefore as institutions or entities, to naturally move toward community. We want to be a self-made person community.
Speaker 3:We want to be a self-made person and right down to the level of, you know, living in neighborhoods, people don't even know who their next door neighbors are anymore. You know, we've just become not only an individualistic society but an isolated society and, uh, the rise of social media and the digital age has not helped that any, because you know, you can stay at home and play your games and surf, and you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I. I think it can give you a a sense of of community without the reality of it right.
Speaker 1:Like how many?
Speaker 2:Facebook friends do you have versus real friends and some of that tension? Well, if you think that's, that's one.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I'm just thinking on that one Internationally when I look at the church first of all, I think it's worth noting that the Western church has done a lot to influence the global church, for good and for bad. Do we see those same things out there? I mean, do you see that kind of drive to individualism? I mean, I don't know, I kind of go either way, right. I think of some of the kind of African, sub-saharan African denominations that form kind of from whole cloth, right when it's just kind of okay, maybe that's them kind of going alone, but maybe it's just no, we have a unique cultural identity here and so we're doing it that way. I mean, you've more traveled than I have. Have you witnessed some of that?
Speaker 3:Well, in the places that I have been, nobody seems to have the whole unity thing down pat. Uh, I see denominations, I see competing organizations everywhere and everywhere and I, I think part of it just exploring the why. What's behind it a little further, is the human need for identity. You know what? What separates me from you?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:What? What makes me an individual, what makes this corporation or this institution unique? And I think a third factor would be competition, a sense that not only do I want to be distinct from you, but I want to be distinctly better than you at whatever is happening here.
Speaker 3:I think a short-sighted selfishness plays into it. If push came to shove, I bet you there are churches out there that would probably, in their more honest moments, admit well, yeah, this could probably work better if we all work together. But you know, we've been doing our deal for a long time and we all know each other and we like each other.
Speaker 2:We're just more comfortable.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just more comfortable with one another doing it our way. Uh, so there's probably, not a not probably, there is no simple answer to that question. Yeah, and I seriously doubt, when you take into account the brokenness, just the basic brokenness of humanity, that we'll ever solve it before the Lord comes back. You know, he, the writer of scripture, very specifically says every tribe tongue. So he understood that there's tribes out there and there's different tongues out there. He, he understood that humanity has a way of dividing itself up.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And despite the fact that we are commended to pray for unity, even as the father and I are one. Jesus prayed unity over us. I think our fallenness from the tower of Babel forward lends itself to this. This is our tribe and we're going to do our deal.
Speaker 2:We're going to stick with it, yeah. Yeah, it brings to my mind a couple of things. Um, I think, I think, probably, first it is. I think you're right, I think there's elements of unity that that, um, ultimately, you know, uh, we're not going to see until till the resurrection. Right Maranatha, come Jesus, and you know that's fine. And I do think that there is a difference between unity and Uniformity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, unity and uniformity, right, Like even when Paul's giving the example of the body right, there's hands, there's feet, there's legs. I would agree with that. But I love your thoughts on this. I heard this. It was from a, it was actually from a business context, and this is what the leader said. They said the only thing keeping you from being a commodity is your brand. Okay, otherwise you're just the same as anyone else in that space.
Speaker 2:Right, right and uh, and commodities again, right, it's, it's a piece of copper for a piece of copper, it doesn't. There's nothing functionally actually different about them. Um, and, and I think about that in terms of the church, and I think, okay, this gospel message is a commodity, it is. It is a message that whomever is delivering it, whether it be the Methodist church, the Baptist church, the Baptist church, the Catholic church, or you know, just the house church, whoever's delivering it, that message is, should be the same. It's the same gospel message. And yet we create a lot of differentiation and a lot of division. Uh, almost in in. You know, I wonder if that's in service to the brand, if that's in service to that.
Speaker 3:Well, I think that's a great example of you know we're. We cannot help but be impacted by the culture we're swimming in and in our culture, branding has become an industry.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, a complete focal point. We're going to help you develop a unique and distinct brand to set you apart, so that people notice. And well, the church is not immune to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 3:And leaders are not immune to that. Yeah, that's true, and leaders are not immune to that. I suppose there are some positives to it in that. Perhaps you see an opportunity to offer something that other churches in the area are not offering, sure, and you can make your unique contribution. But I guess where it goes south is when you move from distinctiveness to isolation.
Speaker 2:Hmm, that's man that is such a good, that is such a good, helpful mental filter. Am I seeking to isolate or am I seeking to create a distinctive? Am I seeking to isolate myself, create again like a self-fulfilling purpose or identity or whatever? Or am I seeking to serve an unmet need? Right, because it might be that in serving the unmet need you end up forming identity. Obviously, we lead with the International Leadership Organization, we do leadership development training. That is the thing that we seek to do to serve the body, accelerate the gospel and advance the kingdom. That's what he has called us to. That is a distinctive not designed to isolate but actually to meet an unmet need.
Speaker 2:And there are other great organizations in this space. But we are working from this kind of curriculum, this pathway of eight core values, to develop Christlike character, to help Christian leaders have a firm foundation of Christlike leadership to live out of. So those distinctives are very different from leadership to live out of. So those distinctives are very different from uh, I guess I guess a a pure. I'm trying to go it alone, I'm trying to isolate, or I'm not even willing to investigate. Uh, who else is in the space?
Speaker 3:Well, it's like um, to draw an example from everyday life, you know are. Are we going to be like the Amish, who have purposefully chosen to isolate themselves? They picked a singular moment in time and decided this is it.
Speaker 2:Here and no further.
Speaker 3:That's right. They're part of the Christian community, yeah, but they are a very isolated part of that community. Christian community, but they are a very isolated part of that community. Just because we are distinctive doesn't deny us the opportunity to experience and promote unity. I think about ILI. We are one of who knows how many organizations out there promoting leadership development, one of who knows how many organizations out there promoting leadership development.
Speaker 3:I don't think there's anything wrong with there being multiple organizations doing that, because each one is going to bring their own distinctiveness, their own abilities, their own perspectives that others won't or perhaps can't. That's true Just because they're made up of different individuals with different gifts and different ideas. I don't think there's anything wrong with different denominations per se. It's sort of like a diamond you know, you turn it and you different, different, facets, facets. As long as, at the end of the day, we were able to remember and celebrate, we're on the same team here. Yeah, we may not play the game exactly the same, but our goal is the same. One example I have seen of this that just is working incredibly well is the Houston Church Planting Network.
Speaker 2:Okay, tell us about this.
Speaker 3:Houston Texas, houston Texas where I lived for almost a quarter of a century, a number of senior pastors from all over the city, of every denominational stripe you can think of, got together and recognized. The only way this city is going to be impacted for the long run is through new churches being planted. Study after study after study shows that's where growth happens through new churches, and so together they owned that responsibility and developed a network of churches who are promoting this. They are underwriting it financially Wow. They are seeking and providing candidates as church planters. They are providing training components that are unique to their particular identity or ability as a church or as a denomination. It's been in existence now, I want to say, for at least a decade. Ken Werlein, the senior pastor that I worked with, was one of those who spearheaded the movement, deeply involved in it, and it is one of the most powerful examples I have seen of unity without uniformity really making an impact. Young church planters are being raised up. They're receiving the best possible training from pastors who have been there and done it in the community and have proven themselves as men and women of ability and commitment to the task, because I don't know of many things in the world more difficult than church planting.
Speaker 3:I did it myself. It nearly killed me. So it is possible, but it requires a lot of intentionality. I think it requires a lot of humility. What we can accomplish together far outweighs what would make my ego feel better about accomplishing alone. Would I get my name in lights? Would I Well, maybe, maybe not. But that's not the goal, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:The goal is to get churches planted, to get people into the kingdom. There's a lot of smart people out there, a lot of capable people out there. Let's come together and do it, and they are. I predict that the city of Houston will be impacted for decades to come through this effort.
Speaker 2:Man. Well, praise God, Praise God for that, praise God for that insight, that wisdom of Ken and others, to really say, in order for this task that is bigger than us to be accomplished, it's going to have the same kind of unity that God calls us to. And to live that out, I think, as I ask myself even the question why is it that we constantly try and go alone? I think you're right, there's some elements of hubris there of these men and women of great faith and great impact and how God used them powerfully. You think, man, yes, like I want, like I want to be used like that.
Speaker 2:And and the, the drive in and of itself, I don't think is necessarily a wrong drive, right, there's a point where that probably could, could become problematic. And but I think, maybe tell me what your impression is on this. I wonder if it's we begin to believe that those stories are like where the line is between that outcome couldn't have happened if that person wasn't there and we forget how many other people were involved in it and we just kind of miss it. Right, I'm thinking you know just generic Western history at least, right, winston Churchill was essential in the midst of World War II, a key figure, but not necessarily more key than other key figures. Right, there were countless individuals that if they had not been when and how and where they were uh, you know it it just might not have happened either.
Speaker 2:Um and there's, I think I don't know, is it is it? Is it wrong to say to yourself, man, I want to, I do, I want to be meaningfully deployed in that kind of way, like I, I want god. There's some part of me that is so unique that I am the only or the best at that one thing, whatever it is, and I just want to use that rightly, for the kingdom. Does that ever pull me into that isolation, into that kind of going alone?
Speaker 3:It certainly can, no question about it. I remember attending a leadership conference once where Andy Stanley was a speaker, and I am an Andy Stanley fan by the way. And he made a statement about leadership that I've never forgotten. I don't think I'm going to mangle it here, but the gist of what he said is as a leader, you should be doing what only you can do. Hmm, you know, there are certain tasks that only the leader can accomplish, or it's ultimately the leader's responsibility.
Speaker 2:There, yep, okay.
Speaker 3:A healthy person can receive that and understand it, and accept it, but also understand. That doesn't mean that just because I am ultimately responsible for this, I have to do it all by myself. The wise leader is going to accept the responsibility. They're going to make sure that they do the things that only they can do, but all along the way, they're going to be inviting, to be inviting, insisting that the body of Christ join them in accomplishing the task, or making the vision a reality, or what have you? Some leaders? Either through a lack of maturity or a lack of understanding, they just haven't been taught. Better, take something what andy said and feel as though, well, it's my responsibility, so, so I've got to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know they hear the do what only you can do, and they hear you're the only one who's capable or could.
Speaker 2:Yes, not you're the only one who's responsible and has authority, Right, yeah, and man, there's so much again, the heart of the hearer can kind of turn that to where it ends up being a healthier or a less healthy kind of position. Okay, so how then do we help? Again, if we're asking this question, how do we find ourselves in this kind of isolation spot? How do we help our teams not to do that? How do we help the people that we are leading? Right, you know we're leading in different kind of capacities and roles and have led in different capacities and roles. The individuals listening in with us are leading, carry influence in the lives of others. How do we help develop a culture where there isn't that? I'm just going to figure out my own way, without stifling that initiative, without saying no, no, no, I want you to take initiative, but it doesn't mean you have to reinvent the wheel every time.
Speaker 3:Well, I think first of all, one has to do some self-examination and figure out to what degree am I not doing this? Okay, where do I need to grow? Where do I need to mature? Those growth edges are being developed and implemented. We model it, we live it. We invite people into the process so that they get a sense of, oh, I have something to contribute here and they want it. Yeah, you know, they came looking for me. Yeah, that gives people. They came looking for me. Yeah, that gives people a sense of purpose. They feel validated. Yes, they feel like they have something genuinely to contribute.
Speaker 3:You know, so often the primary reason people do not get involved in the work of a local church is that nobody asked me this. I can go it alone mentality, or I can do it better than everybody else, you know, so I'm just going to do it. Can do it better than everybody else, you know, so I'm just going to do. It eliminates the possibility of others discovering how God has gifted them and it eliminates the possibility of the whole community learning together. We are better when we're doing this together.
Speaker 2:I love how you presented that. That, because what I heard was, hey, there's a discipleship element here, helping people to discover, helping people to step in and engage, and that impetus to go alone, it's going to stifle that, it's going to restrict that, it's going to potentially even withhold people from discovering some of the unique ways that God has called them to serve and to engage in the kingdom work that God is calling them to. And that resonates deeply with me, because I do. I think there's lots of people that have missed that right. They're missing where they plug into this, and sometimes it's because of invitation, but sometimes it's because you know, gosh, I know I've been in this about where I'm going. I could invite you to join this, but, man, I can do it faster and better Like I'm just going to.
Speaker 3:It's always the temptation.
Speaker 2:Oh man, it's such a temptation, but it's just like you know, I've been, I've been, you know, working with this with my own kids, right, my son was, was cooking and and, uh, I think I even mentioned this story to you. But you know, I'm I'm like, okay, I'm going to sit on my hands while you sit here and cook this. And, man, like that was the hardest thing was teaching him to cook something, um, and not just getting up and and stepping in halfway through because you know it's going to end up getting ruined, uh, but, but, but letting him kind of discover that uh, along the way, um, okay, so here's a question Do you think there's some part of that, that, that tension? All right, so I'm thinking of of, you know, local church pastor, kind of a context to your local leader, kind of a kind of a context pastor, kind of a context to your local leader, kind of a context, when I find that struggle in myself and I justify stepping in because I'm thinking of the customer, I'm thinking of the unbeliever, I'm thinking of the client, I'm thinking of that third person, right, so, me and Sally, we're working on this ministry thing together and I I'm thinking of Bob over here and Bob's going to hear the gospel.
Speaker 2:Sally, she's struggling. I'm just going to go ahead and cut her out and step in. How do we not create that transaction? How do we balance loving and caring for all parties in the midst of that, so that we are going with others?
Speaker 3:Right for all parties in the midst of that, so that we are going with others Right. Well, I think the leader has to come to a place of genuinely believing there is value in developing others, even though it's going to take longer, even though they're going to drop the ball, even though they wouldn't do it exactly the way that I would do it in the long run. Far better to develop 10, 20, 50, 100, 200 leaders than to have worn myself, slap out and become bitter and angry because I was doing it all on my own. How many pastors have just thrown in the towel because either they insisted on doing it themselves or the congregation laid that burden on them to do that?
Speaker 3:One of the things that I really appreciated about Faith Bridge the years that I served there was, from day one, the expectation that was communicated to everyone who came in Faith Bridge orbit was you have a role to play and you are expected to play it. The staff is not here to do the work of the ministry. The staff is here to equip you, to come alongside you, to lead you, and it made ministry a whole lot more fun. I can tell you that from experience lot easier when I knew I didn't have to plan every single aspect of whatever was coming up and make sure every detail was taken care of. Rather, I could spend my time equipping others to do those sorts of things, and that's a great example of doing what only I can do. That's the role of a leader, biblically is to equip others.
Speaker 3:So if you're going to talk about, you should do what only you should do. Start there. Start with equipping other people.
Speaker 2:No question. Well, I mean, one of the core values and you know this that we teach right is multiplication of leaders and the important role that that plays. And even as I think through you know, I was asked recently, you know, what is Christian leadership development, and the thought that came to mind is well, if leadership is influence and the purpose of humanity is to glorify God, then there's got to be a connection between there. And so it's discipling people, it's equipping people to steward the influence that they've been given to the maximum glory of God. In whatever that context and call like, that's the most kind of abstracted framing that I could come to.
Speaker 2:And if we're not going to go it alone, if we're going to accomplish sustainably, with longevity and we see the blessings that God has called and demonstrated in unity, then it is a call to equip others, to bring others in, to help them find their role, their place to be investing in the lives of other people. It's people, it's relationships, it's those foundational elements that form an answer to that call to create it myself, do it myself, figure it out myself. It's wait a second. No, the one thing I can do, the one thing I should do, is invest in multiplying other leaders and having a clear and open process for doing so, and to recognize that that in and of itself, is part of the mission. Right, it's not a means to the mission, it's part of the mission. It's part of the mission is developing people.
Speaker 3:As Dale Galloway, the dean of my doctoral program, used to say to us over and, over and over a leader does not do the work of 10 people. A leader gets 10 people to do the work of 10 people.
Speaker 2:Such a good reminder man.
Speaker 3:Yes, I thought that was an excellent summation of one of the primary responsibilities of leadership.
Speaker 2:There you go, well. So here's my question then Okay, dan, we want these conversations to be an encouragement to other leaders out there. There's somebody listening to us right now that's doing the work of 10 people, and they're one person, and it could be easy for them to listen to this and to think great, now I've got one more thing to do. What word of encouragement or advice, or inspiration, or just love would you offer to that leader If they were sitting across the table from us right here? What would you say to them, man?
Speaker 3:I would say yes, that's true, you do have one more thing to do, but you are finally going to start doing the right things and you are going to get so much greater return on your investment than you ever would have simply investing in yourself and using the very limited resources that you can bring to the table. Yeah, will it require some time and adjusting?
Speaker 3:Yes, adjusting and yes, but it will be the best time and the best adjustments that you have made in ministry up to this point. And, uh, some, some people just won't believe it until they do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And if you're one of those individuals who just can't seem to get there, give it a try, right, give it an honest try and see if what we're saying is not absolutely true.
Speaker 2:Amen. Listen, leader, if you're out there, I just want to encourage you. Uh, it's not easy, it's not a quick fix solution, but it will finally stop the splashing and actually start getting rows in to move the boat forward, and it will help bring other people alongside you to join you in rowing and you'll finally start feeling that sense of momentum. We love you, we exist to serve and equip Christian leaders, and so I want to say thank you, thank you for being a part of this community. You can find some resources at iliteamorg maybe some articles, some YouVirgin Bible plans and definitely our eight core values of the most effective Christian leaders. If you want to help combat that tendency to go it alone, you want to equip others in your sphere of influence so that we create a community like Dan was describing in Houston, where the bigger problem created a clear call to unity among all those leaders.
Speaker 2:There's a great tool out there. It's called the History Makers Journey. We want to help connect you to it. Go to iliteamorg. You can find some great resources there. Check us out on YouTube, facebook, instagram. You can find some wonderful posts there. Check us out on on YouTube, facebook, instagram. You can find some wonderful posts and other resources. Thank you so much for listening and we look forward to having you on next week.