ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Explore the transformative journey that is leadership. In each episode, we will dive deep into strategies, stories, insights, and the core values that shape and inspire effective Christian leaders who make an impact - all around the globe. Get ready to unlock your leadership potential.
When leaders are equipped, kingdom impact multiplies. Equipping leaders and spreading the Gospel. Let’s change history together!
This podcast is brought to you by the International Leadership Institute.
ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Ep. 48 | Faith at Work: Bridging Sunday's Worship wtih Monday's Reality
The average person spends 94 times more hours at work than at church, making the workplace a crucial mission field! In this episode, Daniel sits down with Jason, a seasoned marketplace leader who navigates faith and leadership in both corporate and ministry settings. From his early faith journey to leading in a Fortune 500 environment, Jason shares practical insights on bringing a servant-hearted approach to the workplace.
In this episode, you will hear about Jason's leadership journey and how he discovered that work should be viewed as ministry, worship, and a living sacrifice rather than just a transactional paycheck. Learn how our jobs are not just careers but divine placements—we are missionaries wherever God has positioned us. Today, Christians often view evangelism as the church's responsibility rather than their personal calling. Leadership is an extension of our followership of Jesus, and it's time to live out your faith beyond Sunday. This episode is a must-listen for gospel-driven leaders in every context.
When you begin ILI training, you will discover how the Eight Core Values will lead to the Seven Outcomes in your life and the lives of those you lead. Join a community of leaders who are ready to change history and make an impact in this world. Discover more at ILITeam.org/connect.
Welcome to the History Makers Leadership Podcast, where we explore the transformative journey that is leadership. Each episode, we will dive deep into strategies, stories, insights and the core values that shape and inspire effective Christian leaders who make an impact all around the globe. This podcast is brought to you by the International Leadership Institute. Get ready to unlock your leadership potential and let's change history together.
Speaker 2:Hi and welcome to the History Makers Leadership Podcast. I'm Daniel and I'm just so incredibly excited to be joined by Jason today. Jason is an incredible leader with just a lot of experience in a post-Christian context here in the US, as well as some experience in just leading in secular contexts and those ministry contexts that God has placed him in. Jason man, I am so thankful that we're getting a chance to sit down and spend a little time together, man.
Speaker 3:Oh, excited. Thanks for having me on. I look forward to the discussion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. First, you know we serve leaders all around the world, a lot of different contexts. Some are leading in churches that you know may have a few hundred or a few thousand, some are little house churches with you know, 20 or 30. But we also have marketplace leaders, business leaders. Can you just share a little bit of your experience as a believer, maybe how you came to faith and then some of the context that God has placed you in leadership how you came to faith and then some of the context that God has placed you in leadership?
Speaker 3:For sure, absolutely. Yeah, so haven't been all around the world, right, totally enjoy watching and living through you guys as you travel and meet these leaders all over the globe, but I'm a I'm a Georgia guy here, georgia in the US, born in South Georgia and been here all my life. There's always been a gravitational pull towards leadership. You know, young age, all of the clubs and things at school, student governance, all that stuff I always wanted to be in a role, to make an impact and influence the direction of the organization or the people around me Came to faith at a young age. Actually a Gideon, those guys handing out the Bibles, no kidding.
Speaker 3:Yep, he was at a movie. I don't remember what the movie was, but he offered at the end of this movie in a commercial movie theater anyone that wanted to come down front and get a Bible. And my dad walked me down there and we prayed a prayer of faith and began at a really young age. Of course, you know, going through adolescence and everything. That journey with Jesus took a lot of different shapes and turns. But went into school, met my lovely wife, who's from Carrollton here, and that's how we ended up here ultimately. But we got married and moved off to Florida, had a construction company and was the managing partner of that, so had employees for the first time and all sorts of responsibilities from a leadership standpoint. We ultimately closed that business and moved to Carrollton here about 13 years ago Okay. Joined a large electrical products manufacturer here in town Okay and didn't have any leadership per se, although I know we'll talk about you. Know you can lead from anywhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:But started out kind of in the front lines and and carrying a lot of my business ownership mindset into that corporate environment, made a big difference. People would say, man, it really sounds like you care. And I said, well, coming from a world of business ownership, every phone call is important, every, every engagement is important in the corporate environment. If you have that sort of mindset, it'll serve you well, and it has. And so that sort of mindset of always being responsive, always serving the customer and your fellow employees, has taken me to places inside of this corporate environment where now I've got, you know, leadership roles over people, over processes, over efforts and strategies within the company, and so, um, as we'll talk, talk about and dive into, you know, the ability to take your faith and your servant minded heart and go into the workplace has really been, uh, what I believe has has allowed me to continue to grow in a leadership capacity.
Speaker 2:Man, I love that. I love to hear your heart of combining those things. I know for so many um believers sometimes getting Sunday into Monday can be a hard bridging right, and I'm a big believer that our leadership is an extension of our followership of Jesus. Right, there's ultimately a relationship that has to exist there because I'm called to follow him and so, as I'm living out my life, if I'm going to be leading in any way effectively, I've got to see that as a followership of Jesus and see how he kind of leads me in that regard. Now I also know you got a family, got some kids. Yeah, yep, got four boys, all boys.
Speaker 3:A lot of fun in our household.
Speaker 1:We keep having to patch holes in the drywall.
Speaker 3:I don't know where they come from, but we just relegate them to the basement. Let them go wild. I love that and you also lead.
Speaker 2:If I understand right, you're one of the leaders in your church and that congregation as well. I mean, what does that kind of look like for you?
Speaker 3:at your church. Absolutely, we attend. Here in town we have an elder-led church. So as one of the elders on a five elder team, you know we sort of have a great staff. We have a few hundred people team. You know we sort of have a great staff, we have a few hundred people. It is a non-denominational church here and just you know growing. You know it's been really an interesting opportunity and the leadership tactics, I guess the strategies that I learned in the corporate environment. A lot of times you try to bring that over and and some of those land well and some of those don't land so well, as we've discussed before. But you know it is an eldership. It's been now going on eight years that I've been in that capacity and just leading and guiding. A lot of opportunities to speak from the pulpit and our elders do support the communication of the gospel on Sunday mornings but then, you know, throughout the week through life groups and things like that man, I love it.
Speaker 2:And so what I'm? You know why I'm asking these questions? Because I want the people that you know. I always picture it as if there was a third chair here with us. Right, if they were sitting here with us, I'd want the person sitting across the table from us to know man you're.
Speaker 2:From all the testimony I've heard all of the personal interactions I've had a well-rounded, christ-centered leader that is seeking to emulate Christian leadership with effectiveness across all domains in your life. You're seeking to lead well in your home. You're seeking to lead well in the church that he has called you and placed you and given you shepherding responsibility, authority and privilege. You know shepherding responsibility, authority and privilege. And then you know, even in that secular context where you're working in a kind of a nine to five day job, that doesn't have any less ministry importance or impact. So you know what are some of those kind of leadership lessons you've learned as a believer, as a managing partner in a business and even now as somebody who's kind of growing in leadership and influence in a larger kind of corporate context. What are some of the leadership lessons that you've had to kind of wrestle down, living out your faith in those contexts?
Speaker 3:Sure, yeah, you know. So many things come to mind. I would say you know, in the more secular world, as you do live out your faith, it is naturally embedded in all of your character traits, all of your leadership attributes. Sometimes you can't be as forthcoming, you know with the gospel message in certain corporate environments but you know being able to demonstrate that character opens those doors and a lot of times people will share with you. You know where they are in a relationship with Jesus and you know whether they're really far from Him or whether they're seeking, or maybe they have a great relationship and then they open up and begin to share with you and you can really do direct ministry.
Speaker 3:But a lot of it comes in the form of that just representation of Christ-like character in the workplace right, making sure that people know that your priorities are their priorities, that their future, their momentum. There's so much given to the career planning and career path in the secular world. Everybody wants to see that momentum and it's very similar to in a church setting where you're encouraging a believer to take that next step of faith, that next right move, whether it be overcoming sin and temptation or just moving towards Jesus in a more Christian, disciplined way, the reading of the word, the prayer life. So encouraging people to keep that momentum going is an overlap in terms of the skill set there and I love it in the work world when it can take on that faith element. That's always such a blessing.
Speaker 2:Man, I love hearing that and I know you know there are some corporate groups and if you're in certainly in the US as a leader, you would want to look into these employee resource groups that exist because a lot of corporations have those. But you know, finding that kind of sense of local Christian community, even though we may go to a bunch of different churches if we're in a larger kind of corporate context, I know I've experienced that in some of my time in marketplace work, being able to meet a couple of believers, say, hey, over lunch I'm going to do a Bible study or something like that, getting a chance to fellowship over the word but then also just in the way that God gives us the chance to minister to people, right, you know, it really shouldn't surprise us. People are going through all of life all the time and so in our workplace, the opportunity to come alongside somebody and just speak a word of truth over them or pray with them or say, hey, I know you're really hurting right now. I'm not. You know, I'm not wanting to sit here and impose, but I am wanting to say I'm here, I'm available If you want to have some of those harder conversations, those bigger life conversations that normally we wouldn't have at work, because that this is.
Speaker 2:You know, it's a different context. Have you ever had some of those chances? How have you kind of navigated some of those?
Speaker 3:Yeah, certainly. I mean you mentioned employee resource groups. We have those and we've been able to sort of formulate a faith based group, you know, within our corporate environment. So it's a great community. You know, in a corporation with 9000 employees, we've got a couple of hundred folks that are actively involved in a, in a faith forward group, right, and so there's lots of prayer requests and things shared within that community. But then, beyond that, our company does a great job of supporting through kind of a an emergency fund type program.
Speaker 3:So you see people that that are going through life like you mentioned, and if you know them and you know they, you know they're a part of the faith community, obviously you can reach out and let them know you're praying for them, things like that.
Speaker 3:I think most often for me it's taking the form of someone taking note of just a level of passion that I have for caring for my employees, my team, my coworkers, level of passion that I have for caring for my employees, my team, my coworkers and and them if they make a comment on that, whether I know them to be a believer or anything about them, to me it opens the door and I've often thrown out there hey, I'd love to tell you why I do that Right. I'd love to give you a little bit of the foundation as to why I'm. I'm willing to go above and beyond in these ways that you're noticing if you ever wanted to outside of work, you know and that way it opens the door and I've had a few people take me up on that and I got to really expand on the why behind the intensity that I bring to the workplace as it relates to caring for people.
Speaker 2:Man, I love that.
Speaker 2:You know, we, I always say at ILI, we teach eight core values and one of them is passion for the harvest.
Speaker 2:And you know, I think that's really an extension of this question and this idea of.
Speaker 2:I mean, christ calls us to love our neighbor, right, and what I'm hearing as you're describing it is that passion for the harvest that says I love my neighbor, I love my coworker, I love my employee, and not, again, lip service, love, and not love that is limited to their productivity toward your bottom lines every quarter, but rather a love that says no again, I recognize you as made in the image of God, loved by our creator, sustainer, god, so much that he would give his own son, and that kind of passion leads to those kinds of opportunities.
Speaker 2:Now, you know, earlier you were talking about how living out Christlike character in the workplace really becomes an avenue for some of those kinds of conversations to take place, or just an avenue for you to actively, you know, live out your faith in a public way with the people that you're living and working alongside. I'd be curious, you know, I can think of, you know, maybe integrity or faithful stewardship. What would you describe as some of those Christlike characteristics that are most maybe countercultural or stand out the most right, that cause the most contrast in the kind of typical post-Christian context?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a great question. You know, of course, all of the ones you mentioned and, really, being people centered, I think there's a genuineness. I mean, there's not a company on Earth that would say, yeah, we don't care about our people.
Speaker 3:You know, we have multiple people, p&ls, right, and people in lives I mean, and that's that is stated universally by lots of companies. But I think the genuineness of being people-centered, I think that I think people can tell you know, they know when you're doing it for soundbite reasons and when you're doing it because everything else about what you have presented at work lines up with that. So I think, just kind of pushing back on, you know, the idea that I'm here for a paycheck, you're here for a paycheck, we're both here to just kind of either some generations are of the mindset how little can I do for the most money? Right, there's this transactional element at work. But if you really get down to the biblical example of work, you know you've got to. It's your ministry, it is your worship, it is your, you are a living sacrifice. Right, you are there to serve others, to lead others, to influence others. And when that comes out in the workplace and it's not just a soundbite, people know and they're drawn to it. I mean.
Speaker 2:I couldn't agree more. I think we're living in a day and age, again, just looking at our own context and culture, I think we're living in a day and age where people are yearning for that sense of love and care, but they're yearning for it with an authenticity that is only purchased by time and consistency. Because, you're right, you know what Every business in the world now is going to say man, we care about our employees, right, our people are our greatest asset. Uh, and, and you know, there may be some degrees to which they feel that or see that, um, and there may be some degrees to which they absolutely believe that. And yet still, for you know, for whatever reasons, have to make really hard choices, and I don't want to minimize leaders that are having to make really hard choices that end up being difficult for some people. Um, you know, and I believe wholeheartedly, there are faithful Christian leaders that have to make sacrificial decisions in those cases, but I think, for so many, they hear a lot of lip service, uh, but they don't see a lot of consistency and action and attitude and behavior.
Speaker 2:Um, and so, you know, I loved hearing, you know you've been where you are now for I think you said 13 years, and that kind of longevity allows for a reputation, right. I mean, how many times has the Proverbs described the value of a name, right, and the longevity in that? What are some moments where you you've maybe had to live that out a little specifically right, where you've had to live out maybe some integrity or, um, some sense of of you know? I'll just I'll just kind of stick with the general term integrity. How have you had to live out some integrity in, in your leadership, maybe when you're managing partner? Even now, that, I mean, it costs you something, it was harder, it was heavy. Oh, you're a managing partner, or?
Speaker 3:even now that I mean it costs you something. It was harder, it was heavy. Oh yeah, yeah, you know. Back, I guess, to go back to those contracting days when I was a managing partner and and and kind of everything depended on me, you know, demonstrating that, that work ethic, what was? You know what was possible, being out there, the long hours with the guys, but you know the um, there were some tough things that happened, you know there was. There were things that that that went on with, uh, employees and and injuries and things like that.
Speaker 3:So when you say time inconsistency, I mean there was no end to the amount of time you could invest in those people's lives. And I was, I was young and we didn't have kids at the time and it was not as as much of an impact to really, you know, be there late in the evening, go visit the hospitals, do different things when your employees were, were in, were in a bad state. You know I I don't have as many of those opportunities, uh, in in my current role. I mean, folks are, um, I guess we're we're not on construction sites every day, living a relatively more safe and healthy life, but uh, they still go through. They still go through stuff, they still have relationships break down, they still have, you know, kids in turmoil and things like that.
Speaker 3:And so being willing and in the season of life, it's a, it's a greater sacrifice with everything I've got going on at home. But just letting them know that, that you've thought about them again, that you know if, if they're open to the idea of prayer as their people manager, you know you don't want to overstep the corporate need to dance around that, but if they're open to it, knowing that I'm praying for them is always encouraging. And you know, just getting their feedback right, getting their feedback on when, if my character doesn't stay in line, you know, in terms of being frustrated or complaining or griping or grumbling you know that's a big one in the corporate environment. You don't want to be the source of all the complaining and grumbling. And so not to divert from answering your question on situations where I did it right, but there's lots where I didn't do it right.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think in all of those you know we have an opportunity to learn and grow, and I think in all of those you know we have an opportunity to learn and grow and kind of hear those testimonies, and I would say it's often in my most egregious failures that I learn the greatest lessons and have the opportunity to share with others. But I wanted to be able to talk about some of this with you because I've seen some relatively concerning trends of late. You know, I had the chance to go and visit with a number of churches over in San Antonio, okay, and so they had some research that showed in their region of Texas, the middle of Texas, there were a little over 14 million unbelievers, okay, and so we were talking about just the heaviness of that and the reality that if a single church could reach a hundred people a day, okay, it would take more than 400 years for them to reach that 14 million, and that's just like that's too long man. There are too many people that need the hope and joy that can only be found in Jesus, and I began to hear, and I'm continuing to hear this heart cry of Christian leaders that are saying, hey, we have got to help mobilize people to be on mission 365. Like, we are called to mobilize the whole body of Christ.
Speaker 2:And some interesting trends that are showing how increasingly today's Christians, in a post-Christian context, they are seeing evangelism as a responsibility of the church, not the believers in the church. Yeah, okay, and so first of all, you know I'm seeing some of that research, just anecdotally, you're also a leader in your church. Do you see that kind of being true? How are some of the ways that you have seen people engage in evangelism and some of those elements right? How are you seeing people kind of live out that passion for the harvest?
Speaker 3:and do you feel like there's that same kind of tension? I think those trends are exactly right and I do see it on both sides. You know, our church is focused on equipping our members to be those evangelists. But about as far as our expectation goes, it seems like, is just to get them to invite someone to church, whereby the staff can then do the evangelizing from there on, and that's a great start. I mean, you should absolutely invite people to your church, but being equipped to share the full gospel message Monday through Saturday is certainly where we should be.
Speaker 3:And in the workplace I'm challenged, I'm bouncing back and forth, I've struggled with the idea and and sort of the, the misunderstood notion that to truly make an impact, to truly, um, you know, move the kingdom forward, I guess in in my little sphere, I need to be in a role or in a job or with a company that is explicitly faith-based right or is explicitly doing some, um, some type of care for widows and orphbased right, or is explicitly doing some type of care for widows and orphans right. Working in a manufacturing. It's not good enough, you know, and I'm just reminded of all these teachings that I've heard and I just struggle to keep applying that. If you had everybody from the marketplace come work at the church, you know resources and things would break down, but you'd also you'd also lose all of the influence and impact in the marketplace.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, and to put a put a real practical number on that, the average person attends church one time a month, yeah Right. But they spend 94 times that amount of time in in their workplace, yeah Right. And so I get the chance to sit with business owners. I go, look, you know, if I'm preaching at their church, I get to see for two hours maybe, but you get them for 40 hours every week, man Like. So I think I think you're right on the nose there, that there. But it is so hard though, isn't it? It's hard to like constantly remind myself of those, of those realities. It is.
Speaker 3:I really want to come back to something you and I talked about a few weeks ago. I mean, I shared with you that hey, you know I bounce back and forth Am I having the impact that I'm supposed to have for God? And you were like what would it look like to revolutionize your industry or to bring revival to your industry for Christ? Like what would that look like? What shape would that take? What role would you play in it? And I got to ask some industry partners recent industry event sitting there over dinner you know they were, they had previously shared that they were believers and they're in my industry. And I said guys, what would it look like for us? You know what, if it started with us there's four of us at this table what would that look like? And I and I shared our story and our breakfast that day and that really got some great conversation going. They're actually from San Antonio.
Speaker 2:No kidding.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:We'll have to share some notes on that afterwards.
Speaker 3:So it's possible and that should be the heart, and that's where I should be going to work every day and asking that question and trying to answer that.
Speaker 2:And that's where I hope every Christian leader, if you're listening to this, it's asking that question. God, you have put me, you have sent me as a missionary to the place that I'm in right now, today, right? So, god, what is it that you're calling me to be about? Right? We pray your kingdom come, your will be done. God, you have called us to be a part of that kingdom coming movement. Right, it's the already and the not yet of the kingdom and you know, obviously the church plays a role in that, and when I say church, I mean the body of Christ, not just the building that we happen to gather in, and so it is.
Speaker 2:I think it's those kinds of strategic conversations across the table at a you know market event where it's like, hey guys, we're all in the you know dental supply industry. Guys, how can we bring transformation through this? Because I speak to a lot of pastors. You want to know the real sad truth. They don't always get to know many unbelievers. They spend the vast majority of their time with the flock.
Speaker 2:Now, I'm not even saying that that's a bad thing. I'm not trying to bash on our pastors out there. Lord knows, they've got just as much expectation on them as anybody, but to see this transformation and shift. And I think sometimes in the church we can become overly rote in how we do evangelism or overly systematized or processed so that I would present the gospel to this coffee cup the same way I would a person, and I don't think that's the heart of Christ. I know some of your professional background and experience is kind of in communicating and helping people to see and understand. What are some ways that you have seen—what are some of the lessons maybe from that aspect of your life that you could apply or would apply to celebrating, sharing, telling the story of who Jesus is.
Speaker 3:Yeah for sure, and you're right, I do have a sales and business development role and for all the hits that that's taken over the years, I mean it's a critical role in any business. You've got to grow, you've got to sell your product, and so you know we do. We have a lot of taxes. There's a science behind selling. There's a science behind, I mean, and evangelism can take on that sort of shape of selling, and one of the things that we like to do is we'll take customers who are totally bought in and we'll place them in a setting with a customer who's not at all bought in, right, and let them have this sort of cross pollinating testimonial. You know we look at at the test.
Speaker 3:The word testimony has been in the church since the beginning and now it's in everyday secular life as you give ratings to products and you give ratings to companies in your, your customer experience. You know we try to capitalize on the testimony of a satisfied customer. That's right when it comes to a customer that we don't have yet. Testimony of a satisfied customer when it comes to a customer that we don't have yet, and so certainly it's like a little life group that you're having there you invited someone in and they don't know where they are with Jesus, but you've surrounded them with believers and you've allowed that story from that believer to impact them more than your explanation of the facts right or of the history. So it's really a crossover in that respect.
Speaker 2:Well, and I love that because, you know, immediately my mind went to. I'm a big believer in that. God has gifted his people with hospitality and a lot of times we don't have the opportunity to practice that as often and the ability to say, no, hey, we're going to have a little gathering at our house. You know, call it a party, call it a gathering, call it whatever you want. But hey, if I have relationships that I know are with unbelievers, I want to invite them into that. I want them to come and be a part. But I'm going to invite some of my believer friends too and just kind of have a. You know, we're just we're getting to know each other, right, I'm thinking, gosh, just how many little Friendsgivings have I had where I missed the opportunity to invite a bunch of unbelievers into the room to say, no, we're going to do this cultural practice that we have at Thanksgiving, right, a holiday in the US really designed around gratitude.
Speaker 2:But because we live in a culture that has lost its Christ-centeredness, the gratitude is just kind of to the abyss, like. You know, who are we even grateful to if we don't have a divine? You know, creator God who sent his son, and so. But being intentional with leveraging some of those moments. I think that's a great reminder to, hey, let me kind of mix those audiences more than maybe I do regularly. That's good, that's good. Well, any other things you kind of want to, you know from that aspect or element of your life that you'd want to just share with a believer that's sitting and listening and you know, maybe they got a little bodega somewhere where they've got two or three employees, or maybe they've got. You know, they're looking at themselves on their drive to work one day and they're going okay, God, I want to go in with a different attitude today that sees you differently. Any final kind of parting message for them?
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I think we've got to be. You know, as much as I talked about how my character stands out and someone might take note of that, I don't think we're going to smile anybody into heaven, into faith, right, so I can be a really nice person at work. I've got to be more intentional about the gospel, about sharing Jesus, and I was challenged this week, as a matter of fact, by my 15-year-old who has become our local high school's de facto preacher. He's going in, he's sharing the word.
Speaker 3:One of his teachers took a little video of him preaching to some of his classmates during free time and then he sent me a screenshot of a text of one of his buddies that said hey, man, this is real stuff. I know not everybody appreciates you preaching, but I'm gonna let you know it impacted me today. He is like you know, keep doing what you're doing. And he comes home and shares that with me and I'm like I could be doing more. I could be doing more in my role. If he, at 15, can go into a high school with all the pressures that they have and share the good news, then I can be doing more. Man I love that.
Speaker 2:It makes me think of Timothy right. Let no one look down on you for your youth, but set an example in all things. And, man, what a beautiful testimony. Well, thank you for sharing that. Listen. If you're a leader out there in the world, I just want to say thank you so much for being here. Thanks for taking a listen to be part of the conversation. I hope this serves you well as you seek to honor Christ in your leadership and mobilize and equip the people around you to experience Christ and to make him known among the nations. If it helps you, well, man, leave us a like, a subscribe, something like that. You can find other resources at iliteamorg. Thanks for.