ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Explore the transformative journey that is leadership. In each episode, we will dive deep into strategies, stories, insights, and the core values that shape and inspire effective Christian leaders who make an impact - all around the globe. Get ready to unlock your leadership potential.
When leaders are equipped, kingdom impact multiplies. Equipping leaders and spreading the Gospel. Let’s change history together!
This podcast is brought to you by the International Leadership Institute.
ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Ep 43 | Culture and Perspective: Bridging The East with The West
In this episode of History Makers Podcast, Daniel and Alex dive deep into the fascinating contrasts between Eastern and Western cultures. They discuss key differences in philosophy, traditions, and societal values—exploring topics such as individualism vs. collectivism, historical influences on modern mindsets, and how these perspectives shape everything from business ethics to daily life.
The conversation also touches on how history has played a role in shaping these cultural viewpoints, the impact of globalization on traditional values, and personal experiences navigating these differences. Whether you're interested in cultural identity, history, or the global shifts in perspective, this episode provides an insightful and thought-provoking discussion that will leave you with a fresh outlook on the world.
When you begin ILI training, you will discover how the Eight Core Values will lead to the Seven Outcomes in your life and the lives of those you lead. Join a community of leaders who are ready to change history and make an impact in this world. Discover more at ILITeam.org/connect.
Welcome to the History Makers Leadership Podcast, where we explore the transformative journey that is leadership. Each episode, we will dive deep into strategies, stories, insights and the core values that shape and inspire effective Christian leaders who make an impact all around the globe. This podcast is brought to you by the International Leadership Institute. Get ready to unlock your leadership potential and let's change history together.
Speaker 2:Hi and welcome to the History Makers podcast. My name is Daniel and I'm again joined by Alex and incredibly excited to have you here today, brother, thank you. Thank you for having me there, absolutely, man. You know, in our last conversation we had just a great opportunity to talk through some East-West differences and unique perspectives there. But really I'd love to just spend a minute and kind of talk through just some stories that would be encouraging for Christian leaders and stories that maybe could be just illustrations of the kind of Christ-like leadership that we, as followers of Christ, want to live out in our own life, in our own calling. So, just real quick, what are some of the things that you're seeing in your leadership context and what are some of the stories of men and women that are just doing some incredible things right now? Yeah, thank you, thank you for asking.
Speaker 3:Always a joy to have a different perspectives and cultures. You know we've talked about it and the bit the joke to that in the west people drink coffee, in the east people drink tea. And here's also interesting thing about the time management. People from germany on time for them called. It's like when they're coming for 10 minutes earlier for Americans being on time, it's actually being on time by like 10 by 10 for our part of the world. People calling on time coming day on day, day by day. So if I meet.
Speaker 2:If I say we're going to meet at Monday at 10 o'clock, as long as I meet you on Monday, I'm okay yeah, exactly, we'll be on time so. I love it I love it.
Speaker 3:So that's again thing that of course in the east we have some kind of time management things, sure, but you also give, I think, 30 minutes or so, understanding the person could be late, yeah, and here is automatic forgiveness, as they call it. So we have this automatic forgiveness for some kind of fault Okay, or not coming on time, or even maybe doing not so good something and this kind of automatic forgiveness covers some kind of mistakes or not coming good something, and this kind of automatic forgiveness covers some kind of mistakes or not coming on time, because you fully understand that life is good, life is maybe fast, but sometimes a person got up a bit late in the morning just because something happened. Something happened or nothing happened.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And we are giving automatically this forgiveness to him and the same thing I'm expecting from other things, from other brothers and sisters, and that's why the life is a bit chilly yeah, yeah, you kind of live in that state of just kind of grace for one another.
Speaker 3:You know it's about the I like trainings as well. All the time, in the different parts of the world, it's like they are starting on time. Starting on time in our part of the world, any session is the leaders think. Just think to go out from their room at the hotel and at seven, for instance, or at eight we're having the session, evening session, for instance, and only at seven people's have to open the doors of their hotels and going to the venue, stopping by the day taking the tea or coffee. That's right. So it's like you know it's being late and it's a different cultural context.
Speaker 3:But then, interesting thing happens after, when the training finishes. Here in the West people are like okay, goodbye, disappeared. But in the East, after the training, no one leaves the venue. That's right. They're staying as long as they want and talking about the same thing, discussions, or even continuing these discussions during the lunch breaks or dinner breaks. But actually it's a continuation of the trainings. And what interesting thing happens if we talk about your question, uh, our part of the world is changing the mentality. Oh, from receiving the missionaries to sending missionaries okay, so you're?
Speaker 2:you're experiencing a shift in mentality from just wanna make sure I understand this right from receiving the missionaries to being senders of senders. Yeah, interesting, tell me more about this. What is this look like it happened I think not because of the trainings or division.
Speaker 3:I think it happened because we understood that we are only responsible for our own families, for our own cities and regions and even more, that some people from the West cannot travel to some regions. I mean, I believe right now is a time of the missionaries we just called local missionaries. Be and go and be your admission there, at your work, your community, your family, that's right and in your region. So it's about shared mission, as I said again, yeah, so it's like a support of the knowledge, experience of the brothers and sisters around the world who already have done an amazing job reaching the nations. But now, with the combination of the local energy, local passion and desire and ability to go to the places, which is like hidden now for the Western world. Right, with the local missionaries mentality, in this synergy and alignment, work for the kingdom of God, I think it's a good word. Coworkers, yeah, it's not my work, it's not your work. We are coworking, it's our work. His kingdom, it's our work.
Speaker 2:That's it. That's it. I think it makes me think of two different uh stories. One one, the biblical narrative where uh Nehemiah is rebuilding the wall, and each is rebuilding the wall directly outside of their own home. Right, I can be building the wall in front of your house, and but if I never build the wall in front of my house, and my house will be the one that's attacked, right?
Speaker 3:So I have to build the wall Right.
Speaker 2:I have to build the wall in front of my house as well, and so I think it's incredible to think through just the impact that you're describing of that local leader saying no, this is my language, this is my people, this is my context. I'm going to reach and I'm responsible. That's right and I'm responsible to carry that responsibility no one will care more about.
Speaker 3:I have the language. They understand me. I know and understand the culture. I know and understand the traditions, West and East things, oh, yeah, yeah. And of course I be accepted by them. It's not proclamation like in the foreign gods.
Speaker 2:Okay, so it's not. So your point is Something from the out.
Speaker 1:It's not from outside coming in.
Speaker 2:It's no. No, guys, this is already here. It's a normal thing.
Speaker 3:Bible it's about the East.
Speaker 2:That's right, it's not something from the States, right, right, and I think, I think that's a a powerful connection, you know, it makes me think of an incredible leader named Romero Martinez in Latin America, and this is what Romero's heart really is. He says, look, you know, latin America is 20% of the evangelical Christian. And so he's, he's got that same kind of heart that says wait a second, we, we, we need to to see, uh, we need to see. The great commission is something that we're responsible for, right, we're responsible for it.
Speaker 2:And again, jerusalem, then Judea, samaria, the end of the earth right, exactly, and uh, recognizing how the meek place, time, language, culture and context that God placed you, speaks to where he wants to deploy you for his name and for his kingdom. Right, because, yeah, there are some places you can get into, brother, that I can't get there, right.
Speaker 3:We can also ask you about your help.
Speaker 2:Yes, right.
Speaker 3:Can you share about your experience how, in the past, you reached the regions? That's right. Can you share about your experience how, in the past, you reached the regions? That's right. And now we are together in the mission, in the synergy, in a co-working atmosphere for His Lord Amen.
Speaker 2:Amen. So you know we're working on that, okay, we're working toward that objective. And you know there are strengths and weaknesses, there are moments of celebration and moments of of struggle. Uh, you know, I believe there's an incredible importance of co-laboring with indigenous leaders, with local leaders. Uh, and I think we've talked before about some of the dangers, uh, that that those Western influences can sometimes have in some of the pieces there. You know, if you're talking to a person, you're talking to a Christian leader, and they're wanting to figure out how to make those connections well and not become a burden or a hindrance to the local leader accomplishing them. What would you say to them?
Speaker 3:I like that, especially thankful for all the missionaries from the states especially, yeah, sure, and the generous hearts a lot of people gave to the missions. A lot, amen, and I'm very sorry that, uh, we've seen some examples that some churches and some leaders in global south were spoiled with a lot of american money or, like the, a lot of attention and it. It brought a lot of problems rather than integrity and the trust and the trust we talked about, the trust in the past. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's what I like here, that right now, I think this shared co-working mission of co-laboring, it gives the quality of the responsibility as well.
Speaker 3:That's right, and I like that when we do together some projects, we'd say, hey, let us give our part as well. That's right. Let us be a part of this project Also with our savings, resources, time, abilities, whatever. So it's a shared mission, yeah, the shared responsibility for his glory again.
Speaker 2:That's right. Well, it has to be for God's glory, because that's that's the chief end of man. Right, his glory again, that's right. Well, it has to be for God's glory, because that's the chief end of man. Right Is to glorify God and also we are learning.
Speaker 3:We are learning how to be responsible, how to give as well. We're learning that, and this is a great thing, because when we start to give, it means that we start to rely, trust and hope on God more, rather than our brothers and sisters from around the world, and it brings this miracle of the supernatural multiplication.
Speaker 2:It does and you know, I think with that, god blesses that purpose, that calling that resource allocation Exactly Right. He blesses that and he causes it to produce the fruit that he wants to see right, that kingdom fruit that he wants to see Give is more blessed than to receive, that's right. It's more blessed to give and I wonder how many times that's been robbed of Christian leaders because others were taking part of that. That's an interesting thought.
Speaker 3:That's why I said if you don't want to be spoiled, just give an injection of giving. That's it.
Speaker 2:It's easy, you know. I heard a guy one time. He said if you think money can't buy happiness, you haven't given enough away. Exactly. And I thought, man, how, how clever, because you know it is it is more blessed to give than to receive. And so here's a question then, in this context when have you seen that kind of relationship operate well? Where have you seen that kind of partnership operate well, where there is shared responsibility, there is shared vision, mission and you know funding and output and all those, where have you seen that kind of relationship work well to strengthen the body of Christ?
Speaker 3:I think, because again we are building his kingdom. We have same aims and alignment, understanding the strategies, the tactics or the approaches. So I see how, if we even talk about our ILI trainings, for instance, it's also shared. We are on the ground doing a lot of things for organizing the things, inviting the people and even teaching, which is a big part. And I like how it started to shift in our part of the world that less people coming to teach from the states and more local leaders are taking responsibility and teaching more and more in their own language, without translation, which gives more time for the discussions, which gives more time for the understanding and, the most important thing, that they are actually rising the next generation leaders already. This is the beauty of the body. Amen Of Christ.
Speaker 2:Amen, I love that. I love that element, too, of thinking through that next generation of leaders and how the next generation of leaders needs to be developed, that the next generation should be sitting on their shoulders.
Speaker 3:We don't compete with the next generation. We rise next generation. But how often in this corporate world right now, the people in their 40s, 50s seeing the people in their 20s and 30s as their competitors and not giving the space to grow, not giving the responsibility and even see them as the enemies and treat them as enemies. And of course they could be good for the next five, 10 years because they are more equipped, more knowledgeable and of course powerful, but what could they get in the future?
Speaker 2:No legacy.
Speaker 3:No, Nothing, no team. That's why this theory generation says hey, nurture and help your next generation. You will be already the basics, the foundation for their legs. That's right. It's about being humble.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think sometimes, I think sometimes the older generations there can be a struggle there. And you know let's say it in love, you know, I think sometimes it's they're passionate, they want to see it successful and they've been leading longer, so they're probably better at it. Yeah, right, but with that kind of mentality, like you're saying, where the next generation sitting on shoulders, right, that kind of mentality says hey, I want you to begin practicing this, because a day is coming when you'll have to lead it on your own. And so I won't be there, I'm going to, I'm going to give you this opportunity, maybe even before you're fully ready, so that you can begin learning and practicing and getting that getting in that, that experience, so that you can stand on my shoulders, right.
Speaker 2:Uh, you know, when I, when I think about my own children, right, I can hold them. You can stand on my shoulders, right. You know, when I think about my own children, right, I can hold them. I can put them on my back. They can sit on my shoulders or they can stand on my shoulders. But to stand on my shoulders requires a lot more courage, strength, right, experience. They got to be able to do something like that. And so when we think about developing that next generation of leaders, and again particularly those local leaders, it's taking that local leader, that indigenous leader, and saying, hey, you need to develop yourself and develop the next generation and the next and the next, so that it continues to compound into the future.
Speaker 3:It's about the courage thing and fully relying that the person on whom you're staying wouldn't move or do something dangerous. That's right. That's right.
Speaker 2:And when they are understanding that they can see the deeper horizons than we and they see the broader vision than we, and it sounds like that's, to a degree, that's really what you're seeing there in the body of Christ at the moment, because you said you know you guys are beginning to send out missionaries, not just receive them. So it sounds like that some of this is already happening in the church, because you've got some leaders saying, okay, next generation go go. What have you seen in those pastors and Christian leaders that are doing it? Well, how are they making that transition culturally?
Speaker 3:I think they've done it well because they already had their good leaders in the past and saw the good example.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Saw the good example and these pastors are ready to invest a lot with the next generation and always be near when something happens with the new leaders and say, hey, don't worry, you're not alone, I'm here near you, can call me, reach me anytime and we together fix this problem.
Speaker 2:Again coming back to relationship, right, that context of relationship saying hey, I'm still here with you. It's almost like you can picture the Paul and Timothy kind of relationship saying hey, I'm still here with you. It's almost like you can picture the Paul and Timothy kind of relationship and love there of saying, look, you know, Timothy, let no one look down on you for your youth, but set an example, Right, and so kind of leaning into that.
Speaker 3:And other pastors who have failed in, that is, the pastors who like using the model of the dictatorship. This is my church, my church, my position, and maybe they're successful for a season.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we are seeing some of those kinds of struggles in leadership in the West some as well, where leaders have been one word might be controlling, another might be dictatorial dictatorship, and again, it does seem to produce for a season, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, until everything is dry, it could be effective and efficient even. But we don't know about the next gen. That's right. This organization, church, will be in 10 years, in 50 years.
Speaker 2:So maybe that's the key word is is maybe it can be effective, maybe it can be efficient, but it can't be adaptable. That's the thing, right, and that's what the next generation provides. Is that adaptability to know, okay, what does it look like now? How do I need to change from my generation? How do I need to establish it for the people that are my peers? Uh, and into the future?
Speaker 3:you know, I see that the church isn't about the organization. Church is a taking the estafette from one generation to another and being successful. It's about starting well right and when you're running an estafette you should to take a right kind of moment to take this estafette, run it not to fill it out or, you know, and also deliver it to the next one in a right, comfortable position of him. So how many leaders started well, managed well and failed in giving the power right?
Speaker 2:passing that baton in the rallying race.
Speaker 3:It's an art, it's a science.
Speaker 2:I don't know everything and you know what I think to your point.
Speaker 2:It begins with communication between those two runners right if we keep that, analogy, because the one who's giving and the one who's receiving, they need to, they have to be at the same pace, they have to be communicating with one another.
Speaker 2:You know, you need to know if it's in the left hand or the right. And so I think sometimes younger leaders, maybe next-gen leaders, can sometimes feel intimidated or like they're not welcome to come and have those conversations. But you know, I think for Christian leaders we need to understand it's not a superior and inferior, it's a co-laboring in this effort, it's a working together, it's a camaraderie, it's a relationship that says look, you're building and I'm building. And God has placed us in two separate generations but he's given us both the gift of leadership and so we have to pass from one to the next without losing it or dropping it. Or are there being some issue along the way? And you know, as a younger leader, I think sometimes that can be intimidating. But we have to recognize no, god's called us to this and we're going to make that pass successful.
Speaker 3:You know, dan one point about this allegory. It's having the same speed and only once in a lifetime. The older generation have the same speed with the growing generation, so it's about exact timing, when they will lose and will be older they could have the same speed, it will be faster. Or if it's like too early, this young generation couldn't get it, it's like getting the same speed, delivering the zest of it and then trusting and absorbing and even uploading to him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, spurring him along, encouraging knowing that it's the same race. Same race, exactly right, it's the same race, the same team. We just have been given a different part of the track to run. You've done your face, that's right. You're part of the job. Wow, that's incredible.
Speaker 2:Well, hopefully a Christian leader who's watching this in the moment. This is just an encouraging conversation for you. I want you to know if you're a younger leader in this process, be encouraged, be strengthened. God is equipping and developing you to be a part of his bigger plan and to be a part of his kingdom come. And if you're an established leader who's just looking at life and saying God, I know you are using me and I'm established in that leadership, I want to encourage you to be looking around and saying God, who are you bringing along? In English, you to be looking around and saying God, who are you bringing along? In English, we would say there's no success without succession.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so just a good reminder to all of us to be looking for that person that God is equipping in the next generation to sit on or stand on our shoulders and to lead into the future. And so, if you're looking for ways to equip and establish that kind of leadership paradigm. I want to encourage you to check out the International Leadership Institute, iliteamorg. It's a great place to find a community of men and women who invest in the current generation of leaders and the next generation of leaders, because it's really in those relationships, like you said, alex, that we're going to see God just work out that transformational change for the kingdom, and that's where the co-laboring happens, that's where the race is won and, ultimately, that's when God's going to be most glorified. Amen, that's it. Thank you so much for joining us on today's conversation. We'll see you next time.